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天天 发表于 2018-6-22 18:30

越南人体内流淌着中国血吗?

Do Vietnamese have Chinese blood?
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原文地址:[url]https://www.quora.com[/url]4o*}*?V:p D9^` L

O1KGh~ q Do Vietnamese have Chinese blood? a0k-G4hw DK3e!}

[Z Jl$F(l a0`+f 越南人体内流淌着中国血吗?
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评论翻译
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5h#|+x|R Quy An NguyN77;n HO19;u 24 years in Central and South Vietnam
,v)m,] ~a uy(e i Answered Nov 18 2015
O8HL5z&JI D%v The history of interaction between Vietnam and China is a long one dated from thousands years ago so it's undoubtedly that many Vietnamese have Chinese ancestors. But I think "Vietnamese have Chinese blood" is not a correct statement as this is not applied to all Vietnamese or Vietnamese as a nation.
%qYPiR`:q| Nowadays Chinese is an ethnic group in Vietnam and has presence nationwide.
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?$W!x4oS S7z 中越的交流历史很长,可以追溯到一千年以前,所以毋庸置疑,很多越南人的祖先是中国人。但是我认为,“越南人有中国血统”不是一个正确的说法,因为这不适用于所有的越南人或者越南这个民族。u-_\'xv
如今,中国人在越南作为一个民族并广泛存在于越南。I.K)c&A*a9\ b,K
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Anonymous Answered Dec 11 2015 Qp/t(pf#qJ(h.ne S
Well I seem to remember reading somewhere that after the Han Dynasty's First Invasion of Vietnam they were determined to assimilate Vietnam to become "Giao Chi" a province of China through cultural and racial assimilation.
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我记得我在哪里看到过,在汉朝第一次入侵越南后,他们把越南称为“交趾”,并从文化和种族上同化越南使其成为中国的一个省。7u9@%P wK
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Unfortunately for China their efforts were never entirely successful which led to this process lasting the whole length of 1000 years of Chinese occupation.5|I7u5R6Nz R-t#[

7u#U-[T4l*L 不幸的是,中国的努力并没有完全成功,中国占领越南整个过程持续了整整1000年。&TU[d Ual VA'a
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Throughout the period waves of Chinese were resettled in Vietnam for reproduction with native women to make the Vietnamese racially Chinese.
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在这段时期内,一大波中国人定居在越南,并跟当地的女人结合使得越南人在人种上更接近中国人。
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"n`#IBr)Vk2z5Wu2u Hence it is reasonable to assume the undeniable fact that many if not all Vietnamese of Kinh ethnicity will have some Chinese blood probably.
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N ^ OM$L/qJL] 因此可以判定这种说法是合理的假设,是不可否认的事实,即虽然不是所有的越南京族人,但可能有很多的越南人有中国血统。
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And then we also definately know that some Vietnamese dynasties and Kingdoms were indeed Chinese in origin. Au Lac Nanyue the Early Ly Tran and Ho Dynasties were all started by Han Chinese from Southern parts of China (below the Yangtze River).3_ vW3yZ `

1jf}X2pO.v 然后我们也可以明确地知道一些越南朝代和王国确实是源于中国。瓯骆、南越国、早期的“李朝”“陈朝”和“胡朝”都是起于来自中国南方地区(长江以下)的汉人。
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;g.nqd6\4F Besides in many Vietnamese today especially the northerners one can see some similarities in how they look. They might not look completely the same but neither do Northern and Southern Chinese right?
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EN!?N XXV 另外,现在很多的越南人中,特别是北方人,我们可以从他们的长相上找到相似之处,他们看上去不可能完全一样,但中国的南方人和北方人也是如此,不是吗?#q%L|3M,TW$[{
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Dustin Nguyen Answered Oct 207T]m3_]M
If you ask most Vietnamese nationalists they will certainly say no because the Vietnamese government has been spreading propaganda that Chinese are enemies of Vietnamese. So they don’t want to be related to the Chinese at all even though this might not be true.
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3oQ'Eun rH(N 如果你问大多数越南民族主义者,他们当然会说没有,因为越南政府广泛宣传中国是越南的敌人,所以他们完全不想和中国人扯上关系,尽管这可能不是真的。
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gD,j;y4uS,R Vietnamese are supposedly pure blood even after more than 1000 years of direct Chinese rule so say these Vietnamese nationalists.o~@K)U9R6F"k;JIvmG
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这些越南民族主义者称。即使在中国1000多年的直接统治下,越南人的血统还是很纯正的。lb9W;|"OmG
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That’s just like saying that Europeans never migrated to America and Australia under British rule and those Americans and Australians today are all “Red Indians and native Australians” who miraculously happen to look like Europeans and speak English as mother tongue.
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这就像说,在英国统治时期欧洲人从未移民至美国和澳大利亚,而现在的美国人和澳大利亚人都只是奇迹般地长了一张和欧洲人类似的面孔和以英语为母语的“印第安人和澳洲本土人”。
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K7S%GSS7w So you should know which theory is more logical.
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C;b%R-vD!^3?fO^&N 因此,你应该知道哪个理论更符合逻辑。z/e"t%t)VT

8h}&V |&naM Dor Kimp Vietnamese;{2U$t:f lt K4AJg"I
Answered Jan 20 2016
o&l l4_3?Dk!e9i/t+H It's hard to know since there hasn't been any official research or census on this issue. No government has gone around to find out how much Chinese admixture each person has. They only count the Chinese ethnic minority who identified as such and their ethnicity is passed down to their children through the male line. There is no way to know for sure how many Vietnamese are mixed with Chinese.#D_ J)c9b&E-K

~0os%J$l o*\ 没有官方的人口调查和统计,这个问题很难说清楚,没有政府会到处调查每个人身上混了多少中国血统,他们只会计算少数被认为是中国种族的人和从父系传给孩子(中国血统)种族身份的人。没有其它方式可以确定有多少越南人混有中国血统。
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CDBHHx(^)R \"d ` But a Vietnamese person can find out if they have Chinese ancestors or not by looking in their genealogy book.However I don't think many people actually have time to do that or they have not translated the book from Classical Chinese to modern alphabet yet so can't read what  is in it. I haven't even asked my parents where ours is yet)e'?B"x^:ZPLa

Z)P*R%S!X"YuF l,Q 但是越南人可以通过族谱来找到他们是否有中国人的祖先。可是,我相信很多人实际上没有时间去做这个事情,或者他们并没有把族谱从古汉语翻译成现代(越南)文字,所以不能读懂里面写的啥。我甚至都没问过我的父母我们的族谱在哪。\6| ]Z}

#l,V Cv EI.nvk3Ic Gabriel Chan Overseas Chinese(華僑))P'n ~;l mV7| {
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+QfY6@#BB Chinese have Vietnamese blood! Modern-day northern Vietnam and extreme southern China (Guangdong and Guangxi) were part of the Nam Viet Kingdom whose subjects were the ancestors to Cantonese Vietnamese and other neighbouring peoples.
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中国人体内流淌着越南血!现代的越南北部和华南南部(广东和广西)都曾是南越王国的一部分,那里的人民就是现在的广东人、越南人以及其他附近民族的共同祖先。 a7Ja0ZcQ
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Over the millennia Guangdong and Guangxi became a part of China (due to lack of powerful local leadership) while Vietnam emulated China and was occasionally dominated by China they developed their own culture especially after their own domination of Champa and Khmer in today's central and southern Vietnam. This is also why despite being a major superpower in Southeast Asia Vietnam is culturally and ethnically more related to Chinese than its other Southeast Asia neighbours.!V-j mr4E2U S:k,n

D-]8s&o#r E] 数千年以来,由于缺乏强大的地方领导,广东和广西成为了中国的一部分。而越南则模仿中国,虽然偶尔被中国中国,但是他们发展出了自己特有的文化,特别是在征服了占婆和高棉(今天的越南中部和南部)后(,越南显得更加du立)。 这也是为什么尽管越南是东南亚的主要超级大国,比起其他东南亚邻国,越南在文化和种族上与中国有更多的相关性。
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mvg)P[l/P rG Before the Westphalian worldview dominated the world Chinese was a cultural not ethnic concept. If you adopted the culture of “China” you were part of China. If northern Vietnam lacked strong leaders that insisted on autonomy today Vietnam would be one of the fifty-something minorities or a part of Cantonese culture. There would be no country called Vietnam but there would be a larger Cambodia and a Muslim country called Champa.
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-I"Q7sYy:uv} 在威斯特伐利亚世界观统治世界之前,中国人是一个文化概念,而不是民族概念。 如果你采用“中国”的文化,你就是中国的一部分。 如果当年的越南北部缺少坚持du立自主的坚强领导人,越南如今将成为(中国的)五十多个少数民族之一,或是广东文化的一部分。 如果历史如此发展的话,世界上将没有一个叫越南的国家,但是会有一个国土面积大一些的柬埔寨以及一个叫作占婆国的穆斯林国家。 T3^)k h&jQj.f1K1Y

xXE1}j2L~ Thuong Tran Patriotic Vietnamese who traveled to Vietnam from the U.S.
F#yg~*H"eHsE\Hf Answered Aug 28xbB{u
There is some Han Chinese blood in Vietnamese people I would assume. Over the course of thousands of years and some ‘'controversial history” the two there have been mixed between Chinese and Vietnamese. However I would say that Chinese blood is far from dominating Vietnamese blood. Vietnamese are Vietnamese and so it is our blood. When you think about everyone has African blood so it would also be correct to say so. So that's my answer there is some Chinese blood in Vietnamese genes but not a huge amount.
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;Km`+jUF 我想汉族血统多少都有融合进越南人体内。在过去数千年间,以及从一些“有争议的历史”角度来看,两国人种早已混合。即便如此,我还是要说,中国血统与远没有主导越南血统。越南人就是越南人,这就是我们的血统。就好比说每个人都拥有非洲血统一样,这种说法也是正确的。所以综上所述,我的答案是:越南人的基因里带有些许中国人的血统,但完全可以忽略不计。,B-uv*S Y6Qp

OA7NKV,V Ryan Le PhD candidate at Kyoto University)G9q`n`$L
Answered Mar 5[$o_+W3b ZK+C
The Vietnamese is a highly heterogeneous people despite the fact that they speak a common language intelligible to everyone in the country. S%Q3D!QFv
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虽然在越南,人们都使用统一的语言进行沟通交流,但实际上越南人是多种族混血民族。G2J:?d7x.z8}

` Q]{ km'}i.L%Mt Genetically speaking the more to the north the higher proportion of Tai blood and the lower proportion of Vietic blood can be found in Kinh population. Similarly the nearer to the capital and cities in the plains of Red Ma and Ca Rivers the more Chinese blood can be found. The Vietnamese in the South have a similar genetic makeup to the people in North Central region with various degrees of Cham and Khmer admixture.
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%u#AW6\uvT&J;^ x 一般来说,越往北方的越南人身上所带有的泰族血统比例更高,而在京族人身上我们只能发现少量的越南血统。类似地,能在住在靠近首都和位于红河、马江和兰江平原地带的城市的越南人身上发现更多人带有中国血统。南方越南人与北方中央区域的越南人在基因组成上类似,皆融合了不同程度的占族及高棉人的血统。(K$A@;X^ l

s nGd3I8\Stg Culturally speaking the Tho (original Vietic) who were Taicized became the Muong and the Muong who were Sinicized became the Kinh.:i4[5D2S3a(Rc
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从文化角度上来说,越南土族(原始南亚语系)被泰国同化后形成了芒族,而芒族在被中国同化后形成京族。&c ib+i4C8?IP"d
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Linguistically speaking they speak three dialects of the Vietnamese language. The Northern and Southern dialects actually originated from two branches in the numerous dialects in North Central Vietnam (the Vietic homeland) where a great liguistic diversity of the language can be found.
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从语言方面来讲,越南人说三种方言。北方及南方方言起源于语言多样化的北越中部(南亚语系的故乡) 众多方言中的两大分支。
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See more about the origins of the Vietnamese including their Chinese origin in my answer to this question:Ryan Le's answer to What is the ethnic origin of Vietnamese?
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想看更多关于越南人起源包括越南华族血统起源的话,可以看看我在网友Ryan le提出的'越南人的种族来源是什么?' ”这个问题下的回复。
/{Tb B(BAL0[ Michael Röschter Been there quite a few times. Can survive on my own.!_2}1O!KUX
Answered Jan 21 2016
JUxPcc!_|-]S-z Actually you should better ask. How many Cantonese have Chinese ancestors.
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事实上你这样问更好:有多少广东人的祖先是中国人?
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Modern borders language borders and nationalism are largely meaningless categories when it comes to genetically relatedness. Some recent research in Europe showed that genes distribution completely ignores borders and languages. The only things that matters in Europe is distance.G7u3_A7rZ0u}qK&e
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对于遗传相关性来说,现代和语言的界限以及所谓的民族主义其实都是毫无意义的类别。欧洲的一些近期研究表明,基因的分布与边界和语言无关。在欧洲(与基因分布)唯一有关的就是距离(的远近)。
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E.g. Norther Italians are far more similar to Southern Germans then they are to Southern Italians.
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比如,与意大利南部人民相比,意大利北部人民则与德国南部人民更加相似。
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"N;_cQ pR5{VL Something similar is the case with China. There seems to be smooth genetic transition North - South between. Mongolia all the way to Southern Vietnam but no distinct genetical borders.
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5J&ew dEc+F c6g#`*\ 中国也有一些类似的例子。南北之间的基因过渡更为平缓。从蒙古到越南南部都没有明显的基因界限。
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wZlQRn*Q-Oi Tl; dr the people in today's Vietnam share ancestry with a Southern Chinese to a large degree. people in Northern China are strongly mixed with Mongolian. That some of them speak different languages is more related to politics than to genes.0oKz*q4jv/W

S$J/n6ZZ8a/F~-BB.y 如今越南人很大程度上与中国南方人拥有共同的祖先。中国北方人则大多混合了蒙古人的血统。他们中有些人讲不同的语言,与其说是基因问题,不如说是政治原因。aU PVB5y)]

VR:aO\ } lm-I William Nguyen former Customer Service Officer at AIESEC RMIT Vietnam (2015-2016);i.Ak;z*?,{&L7D
Answered Oct 20Q,a&rX/N]?
A part of it yes but not all.
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有一部分是,但不全是。9w+U3Z+tU'I f

f6fj!Te%h$vrp The Vietnamese people originated from Southern China (called Nam Viet) but they were not the Chinese people as we commonly know. In fact they were the Viet people who established several kingdoms of their own until the Han Chinese forced them to flee South. The Viet kingdoms in modern-day Northern Vietnam were the last ones./Z)T5Kf"_j:Z*Z
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越南人源于中国南方(称为“南越”)但是并不是我们普遍所认知的中国人。事实上他们是越人,曾建立了数个国家,直到汉族人迫使他们逃向南方。如今的越南就是越南王国的最后留下来的人脉。0Ejw9p2v+G
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Of course throughout history the interaction between us and the Chinese did bring the combination of 2 bloods so that’s all we got.
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1A(t8H;}-@AZv4za.nO 当然,纵观历史,我们与中国人之间的交流确实带来了2种血统的混合。*H7Q B#N&?4g.K,}A
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The Vietnamese-Chinese ratio can vary from very large (about 50% where your father is Chinese and your mother is Vietnamese or the other way around) to very small (5–10% where some very distant relatives or your great [great great] grandparents are Chinese) depending on how close you are to the last person with Chinese blood in your family tree.
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越-中混血的比例可以很高(大约50%的人的父母有一方是中国人,另一方则是越南人)也可以很低(5-10%的人有与自己血缘关系很疏远的亲戚,或者说他的曾曾曾祖父母是中国人),这取决于你与你家族谱上最后的一位中国人的(血缘)关系有多近。De6B|$E0g\9yI@
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Peter Tran Research history through reading books and Internet
vyv"UN Z4Rt'k Answered Oct 11\ `[8AB0d
From what I have read the Kinh ethnic in Vietnam was a creation of a mix of Southern Han Au+Lac yue Minyue from Fujian and Dongyue from Zhejiang. The Kinh means people lived near the capital. From ancient maps the Southern Han population was mostly concentrated in the capital (Ha Noi) or cities (Hai Phong Ha Long) in ancient North Vietnam. The Yue also lived in the low land around the Red river delta. If we do a correlation or overlay the two populations together it is logical that there should be a mixing just like what was happened in QuangXi and QuangDong. Later on when the Ming dynasty lost to the Manchu a lots of Southern Han immigrated to Southern Vietnam so there was a mixing there too. Hoi An city which located in the middle country of Vietnam also has a large Chinese population. The area at the southern tip of Vietnam was once autonomously administrated by the immigrant Ming Chinese population. So Vietnamese do have Chinese blood from Northern through Southern low land Vietnam. But not all Vietnamese have Chinese blood if they live in the mountains or in a local concentrated areas that have strong ethnic minorities like the Chams Khmer etc.
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从我读到的东西来看,越南的京族是由南汉(南方汉人)、瓯骆、(福建的)闽越和(浙江的)东越血统混合形成的种族。Kinh(京族)指的是住在首都附近的人。从古代地图看,南方汉族人口主要是集中在首都(河内)或在古代越南北部的城市(海防港下龙)地区。越族还住在红河三角洲附近的低洼地带。如果我们把这两个种群联系起来,或者把它们叠加在一起,那么逻辑上来说就应该会出现一种(民族)融合,就像在广西和广东那样。后来,当明朝输给满族的时候,很多南汉移民到越南南部,所以那里也出现了(民族血统)融合。在越南中部的会安市也有大量的中国人口。越南南端的这个地区曾经是中国移民的自治地方。因此,从北至越南南部低地的越南人都有来自中国人的血统。但并不是所有越南人都有中国人的血统,如果他们住在山区或者是住在有像占婆人、高棉人这样的少数民族的当地集中地区。
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Yt B$u r4d8B Kha Nguyen Born & raised in Vietnam until 18
SQ{eh"M ?0@0F7O.A Answered Jan 8
Y%WU9b `BdD+N!|W This is a very sensitive question since the nationalism spirit is high in Vietnam (and basically everywhere in the world at the moment: USA Britain and even China). However to answer your question in an obxtive manor I would say that Vietnamese is closer to Cambodian Laos and Thai. However Vietnamese adopted Chinese culture in very early history. Eventually the Vietnamese you see today are a mix of the original Vietnamese Chinese (and there are many different races of Chinese in itself as well mostly those in South China) and Cambodia Laos or Thai. I don’t think there exist any pure-breed Vietnamese any longer.
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这是一个非常敏感的问题,因为越南的民族主义非常强烈(基本上现在世界上的任何地方都有很强烈的(民族主义感):美国、不列颠甚至还有中国)。然而客观地来回答你的问题,我可能会说:越南(在血统上)离柬埔寨、老挝和泰国更近一些。但是在历史上越南很早就采用了中国文化。最后,就发展成你现今所看到的越南人(血统)中混杂了原越南人、中国人(中国自己本身就有很多的民族,他们大多数都在中国南边)和柬埔寨人、老挝人或者泰国人(的血统)。我不认为现在还存有拥有纯正血统的越南人了。
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Even now if you compare the facial structure of a Northern Vietnamese and a Southern Vietnamese there are some obvious differences hinting that Vietnamese (lets exclude minorities in this argument) are not a pure race and there is not just one single origin of Vietnamese.}0q@,tk1^8[

t!zk[ D9T3V 尽管这样,如果你比较北部越南人和南部越南人的面部构造就会发现一些非常明显的不同迹象,而这说明了越南人(这里不包含越南少数民族)并不是一个纯粹的种族,越南人(的起源)不止一个。
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Phan Văn Hoàng Urologist;learning sociology philosophy and politics
~(a.BNz} Answered Apr 23 f]9F O]
Both Vietnamese and Chinese have the common ancestor : chimpanzee . Any questions?aA.mq uo

"D"b(JJ5d 越南人和中国人都有共同的祖先:黑猩猩。 还有什么问题吗?[G&MpWA

;K w kD&^;h o6XG Luong Manh Tuan (梁孟俊) Concerned person
1V$w_n5P H Answered Nov 17 2015GP4un/Gjnl }
By definition all countries to which a group of Chinese migrated too have people of Chinese origin. That counts almost all countries in the Asia-Pacific. The list includes Thailand Malaysia Indonesia Singapore Myanmar Philippines Vietnam Korea and Japan. Intermarriage happen a lot depending on the amount of Chinese and the rate of intermarriage.+u1A"J+Xvon

Y$R"M+XU8aAA 根据定义,拥有中国移民的国家也会存有流淌着中国血同的人们。 这就几乎包括了亚太地区的所有国家,例如泰国、马来西亚、印度尼西亚、新加坡、缅甸、菲律宾、越南、韩国和日本。异族通婚现象很常发生,很大程度上(有没有中国血统)取决于(这个国家里)中国人的数量和异族通婚的比例。
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Hoang Duong Le lives in Vietnam
+m&s7ub.Q] upxed Dec 25 2016 Y,ji-h?%k%b7f
Let’s look at Tibet for example they are Chinese now but should Tibet people get back their independence from China then citizens of the new Tibet nation would be originally Chinese but also originally Tibetan depend on how far back into history would you go.TU rw n

)t{Rb(a8D 咱们拿西藏做例子。西藏人现在算是中国人。如果某一天西藏从中国du立,可以说新的西藏国的人民以前全都是中国人(这取决于你从哪一个时间点看历史)。
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x+z:F#IEm)u/QO Historically part of current Vietnam (the Dai Viet - mainly North Vietnam)was nominally a part of China with Vietnamese emperors being vassal to the Chinese emperors. So by this definition Vietnamese are originally Chinese similar to Tibetan and Mongolian people being Chinese now.%BSVS1Ns!X

KrKE`2E 历史上,现在的越南的一部分(即大越——主要是越南北部)名义上曾经是中国的一部分。越南的皇帝曾经是中国皇帝的附庸封臣。所以在这一定义下,越南人曾经是中国人,正像现在西藏和蒙古人可以算作中国人一样。
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l"l:tdR'q If we go far past enough we are all African.
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D)Pd4vHq7AV8o 如果你追溯到更远的历史,那么我们都是非洲人。
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However the definitive answer is hard to reach as there are too many interpretations to the question.#kf7K/w+_cn

G^2J|`2H6}jH7P 然而,这种定义式的解答很难成立,因为对这个问题有太多不同的解读了。
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FJ#i_ Br,Y| Are Americans originally English? Some are some are not.
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X+_*Mb W;] ?1n 美国人原本都是英格兰人吗?有些原本是,有些则不是。
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Are you asking if ethnic Vietnamese (Kinh people) originally Han?
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0f6LP-k'b,a%A7_-?:[.VH 你是不是在问越南的主体民族(京族)原先是否是汉族?
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[l*z#?9e zYK It is still very difficult to answer as there are a lot of immigration and mixed marriages throughout more than 2000 years.
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+Oq/[hbU!@5u!iY8w 两千年来(在中国与越南之间的)互相移民与通婚后,这个问题仍旧很难回答。
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Also notice that there are a lot of Chinese people who are not Han now.
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7dVa`3xF hZ)Ih$I 此外,仍值得注意的是,现在有许多中国人都不是汉族了。

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