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[转载] 有什么东西大多数西方人认为是来自日本,但实际上是来自中国的?

Culturally, what is something that most westerners think is from Japan, but is really from Chinese culture, and vice versa?
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  v/ |6 n+ A! t" q* L% g0 A5 Q在文化上,有什么东西大多数西方人认为是来自日本,但实际上是来自中国的?
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评论翻译3 N0 A* l7 R6 q6 W1 x
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Johnny Chao, Head of Data at Transunx Canada+ R6 q/ Y- R7 `6 {- q& ]
Wow, where to begin?
. A. A6 H& a" wLet me start by saying I love Japan as a tourist destination, the food, the hot springs, I’ve been there many times and will go again soon. I have no ill will to the japanese people and do not hold the current citizens for what transpired in the past and what their grandparents'' generation was doing in Asia. The following is simply what has been “from China”. The US would call it cultural appropriation, I think of it more as remixing a song. It’s totally fine, and it’s great for advancing and innovation.
6 w4 _% K6 e; V- b; GFood:
+ `  L6 y% K- K. s' @Soy sauce
! b( ?6 G1 o5 b; j8 \* P9 b0 UVinegar
. o3 v. y' s, JRice as a water crop/ n, x" m; M1 |# H$ L2 t4 t
Sashimi - yes this happened much earlier in China first and then it went to Japan, but they did come up with putting it on rice that has gone bad, which gives the sour taste, later they were able to get vinegar which means the taste can be mass produced
& v1 K: l6 L  E% \+ BRamen - which is just very recently taken from China in the last century
+ M6 }& X! h, h* }Wheat noodles in general
* ]# o* d# Y. Y) s  ?. [0 J9 GTea/Tea ceremony
9 `, @$ z  B1 U3 YArchitecture:
4 ~4 d: M1 J# r+ p# I1 kThe truth is China was leading all of Asia in architecture, from houses to palaces to temples/shrines to bridges, Japan or other neighbours like Korea, Vietnam all copied, you see that exotic architecture in those countries, it’s originated and very similar looking to Chinese architecture." E5 [5 H' |, d6 z; R/ n9 h5 I/ d
. @7 L' K8 L+ A9 D6 E7 lBuddhism, now people will say that’s from India. Well yes/no, buddhism in it’s original Indian form is very different than what it evolved to in China, including the most popular one Zen(chan) Buddhism in Japan. It was merged with taoism and Confucian values and become it’s own beast.
. z' e! M2 R0 N& w% i3 `- _Language/Writing:
4 T) G/ B" q  Z5 L5 j  l: _As others have mentioned, kanji is chinese, taken from the tang dynasty so Japan can have a written language, Koreans did the same later on, the vietnamese, etc.
  m2 `/ F6 x  n2 z4 MFashion/Craft/Art:6 ~0 @7 R) B' T/ ^  s6 O& Z- b
-From kimonos to playing Go, Bonsai, flower arrangement, etc. There were many forms of everyday living that the japanese took and ran with, and to their credit preserved very well. But even things like Dragonball comics, the main character is son go ku, which has a monkey tail, a bo that can extend, and is the same name as the monkey king from journey to the west. There are also the whole fox demon/spirit thing that is from chinese folklore. The similarities are actually quite astounding, the japanese didn’t really see anyone else to learn from till the meiji restoration when they realized western powers were more advanced in certain technologies/science.
6 W& ]3 C; ^2 ]. Y! ^# r$ ^) YWar:
; o5 i2 j- t6 D- ^# k1 w( B% M: @Ever heard of the Art of War? Well japan has it too and interpreted a bit differently. Guess where it comes from?
$ Q7 X2 L- c$ e* i; d# PGuess where Katanas come from, they are so similar that if you googled tang dynasty swords, you will see the original katanas. Hence the process of making those weapons. In china they evolved to larger wider blades for knives and Japan actually kept up the original shape/style.% n+ `5 B! D# ^" t  F2 {7 t
Now here’s an interesting one: When china was in the warring states period and then unified by the first Emperor of Qin, he was looking for immortality. One of his most famous alchemists, suggested there were heavenly islands that lived gods to the eastern sea. He needs a big ship and help to find them to bring back immortality potions. So the emperor granted him a set of large ships to carry 3000 young teens to act as an offering to the gods with guards. He left and never came back. His name was 徐福, which you can find his legacy in Japan, most of which in the Saga prefecture of Kyushu, this included temples and stones for this person with the same name. Kind of interesting but I don’t claim this guy to have started the japanese civilization as some would.
5 T5 G0 v3 D: j( S! z# d9 yI do have to say sometimes I’m a big depressed that my western friends keep telling me how great this or that thing from japan is, and I’m like…c’mon…. just shows what difference a great job marketing and a crappy job marketing can make.1 K+ j2 m' I+ n
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哇,从哪里开始说呢?, Y! @( t  c- B7 ]
首先我要说的是,我喜欢日本这个旅游胜地,那里的食物、温泉,我去过很多次,很快还会再去。我对日本人民没有恶意,也不会因为过去发生的事情和他们祖父母那一代在亚洲所做的事情而指责现在的日本公民。以下是一些简单的“来自中国”的例子。美国人称之为文化挪用,我认为这更像是重新混音一首歌。这是完全可以的,这是伟大的进步和创新。# g% z4 e+ J7 V/ b( g- U. ~
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& a) ^: l) b& d$ v( _7 W1.酱* l% W- h* L$ ~' D! K, P
2.醋+ Q# P. P! ^4 g) U' o
3.作为一种水肥作物的水稻" Z+ y$ Z" c. x; E. b6 s
4.生鱼片--是的,生鱼片在中国很早就有了,然后传到了日本,但是他们确实想到了把它放在已经坏了的米饭上,这就产生了酸味,后来他们有了醋,这意味着这种味道可以大量生产。) l3 {+ d) U* d8 T
5.拉面--这是上个世纪从中国传来的。* S, U  E  _2 K
6.一般小麦面条+ [, t1 Y. j. G% B
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+ D, N, V5 c  n5 m) U( L7 LBevin Chu(回复Johnny Chao): M8 k0 J) E2 i" c
I suspect many Greeks feel the same way when people who flunked history gush about Roman achievements which were actually Greek in origin.7 Q  J. J+ s2 f/ H
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我怀疑当那些历史不及格的人滔滔不绝地谈论罗马的成就,而这些成就实际上起源于希腊时,许多希腊人也有同样的感觉。( N" C  d% H% o' ]- [( U

. O+ H$ X  U) ^; d: J1 rJohnny Chao(回复Bevin Chu)
$ K9 ~! z- L, YAgreed, like all the name of the planets are actually Roman now even though the gods maintained their original names, mostly. But I''m sure in 100 years things like pizza, pasta may be totally American food who are Italians lol.$ K! z# i5 Z  B- c4 b% K' M
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Alparslan Çetin(回复Johnny Chao)" d3 K4 N3 k% E5 _$ `
We can extend this to an egyptian phenomena since many achivements in ancient greek emanated from antient egypt
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! b2 j7 L8 u  p7 j  s# I% A. MQuora User, I''m Hong Kong Chinese+ S3 A1 d* P' [. d/ @
There are many answers here already. I’ll add a few more. In short, all high culture in Japan is foreign.7 g- @/ c- L3 ^, n1 w" @
I am not trying to be insulting, but Japan was a relatively remote undeveloped and primitive island before the West “discovered” it. All their high culture at the time came from China directly or indirectly by way of the Ryuku Kingdom or the proto-Korean states.
9 L; @+ V) n% B# D+ ?Most of the time the Japanese have simplified and solidified the art forms, adding rules and procedures, departing from the traditional Chinese Taoist mentality of being formless.8 i) w8 j; @2 H0 ^; q6 L; z% A
Here are some examples others did not give. Some I will explain some I will just list out because I am too lazy to detail everything:
1 d7 i* t. l: q& rBonsai trees8 }8 Y4 t1 N+ R8 y7 V& t5 J
“Bonsai” is the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese words, 盆栽, or “penzai” in pinyin. It is an art from China that the Japanese have simplified., e4 `) C1 Q" N( x. `5 n
Japanese Gardens, c* \* M: P( z5 e, W0 ~2 y" h
Chinese garden aesthetics were simplified and miniaturized, however you can still see the relation.% f) N' s0 d$ C  k( y* C  V
Suiseki8 X' j6 Z: d" T1 ~0 E0 w! M. u4 E
The Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese words, 水石, or “water stone”, also known as “Scholar’s stones”. This is again, an art from China.5 P6 D, E  i$ q, z3 O  C1 _
! S. F* U7 Y4 B6 w( K, YZen is the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese word 禪, or “chan”, which is the result of mixing Buddhism with Taoism, China’s native philosophy.
5 R* T( @0 t4 u) Z( y4 i: c. ZKarate
, \9 s0 G! f. ?# b, r/ E% p( sRyukyuans (Okinawans in modern day) were taught some basic martial skills which came from China. This is because Chinese, mostly from Fujian, traveled and settled in the Ryukyu Kingdom, which was a vassal of China for many centuries. From there it went to Japan.) I) X9 h' X3 e8 a
- h# ~+ n: M5 d$ {0 ZSimple explanation: if you look at the base techniques of Jujutsu, you can see the relation to Chinese throwing martial arts like Shuai Jiao. Shuai Jiao was developed centuries (maybe more than a millenia) before Jujutsu. J- e4 W5 D( ?4 ~
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6 g8 y0 G& e6 s' b( r8 g$ A# b琉球人(今天的冲绳人)被教授一些来自中国的基本武术技巧。这是因为主要来自福建的中国人在琉球王国旅行和定居,然后从这里去了日本,琉球王国是中国几个世纪以来的属国。7 u, J# L4 a4 K
柔道/柔术  Y+ e& l, ?/ n+ a7 w2 m3 B
简单的解释:如果你看一下柔术的基本技巧,你就会发现它和中国的摔跤等武术之间的关系。早在柔术之前,摔跤就已经发展了几个世纪(也许超过一千年)。; t* j$ d; B: m1 B, r5 c

: i$ r0 g9 h9 K8 P茶/茶道
, L5 m3 ]/ f' _  s. I4 e大家都知道茶来自中国,但茶道也不例外。
0 I+ M8 Z2 j/ w这是一个来自福建的习俗,但这次不是经由冲绳来的。我不记得具体的细节了,但是一个日本的和尚来到中国,把茶和茶道带了回来。他写的一本旅行的书里有记录。
  f8 \, b5 S7 _和日本其他东西一样,茶道也简化了。
. t) R& u6 ]5 O3 X* g) ]寿司/生鱼片
. T2 ]8 R1 S. o这只是我的个人理论。在中国,吃生鱼和生的陆生动物在数千年里都非常受欢迎。后来,当人们开始意识到新鲜生肉中的寄生虫可能对老人和年轻人有害时,它就不再流行了。5 w( j4 v7 ?8 N& @! e, z" H

- h% \" P/ y8 R1 _. I# Y5 `, x0 cElliott Chen, lived in Japan6 [0 O6 H* U2 B6 e8 F: I/ c
Kanji. To westerners the three writing systems in Japanese are indistinguishable - the kanji gets lumped in with hiragana and katakana syllabaries which are natively Japanese (though hiragana is a stylized rendering of kanji. But let’s put that aside). Even the word Kanji is the Japanese pronunciation of two Chinese characters meaning “Han characters” or Chinese characters.* b* q# G* h+ ?8 L6 i) ^
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% f" B1 p! r! m$ V9 f/ h! |Oscar Cordón, Research Analyst, Cross Border Investments at Rhodium Group (2019-present)
) V5 j  W# ~  iI don''t think this is a fair question. There are a lot of things that could fall in this category, but it depends on what the criteria is.
) K7 R$ E, F# O+ l9 e: K6 W  lYou could say Japanese writing is really Chinese, because that''s where the characters came from.
4 o& [8 L) r' T; `* INow, you could say that hot dogs, an American invention, are actually not American, because bread was brought over from Europe, same with sausages.
) [! R# e  Q  ~4 M/ P. _You could say lasagna, an Italian invention, is actually from foreign origin. Pasta entered Italian cuisine via China (Marco Polo brought it over), tomatoes made their way to Europe from the Americas after Columbus landed there, and cheese made its way to Europe from India.) c5 Y( T7 [% F1 _2 c
You could also say Chinese tea is really Indian, because tea was first introduced to China from India. Or that Hong Kong egg tarts are actually European, because that is where they came from, or that Szechuan cuisine is actually Mexican, because that''s where the hot peppers came from.3 J& `2 c$ G! k; e) d4 b6 }
Japan has obviously borrowed and inherited several things from Chinese culture, but has made them its own and developed them in a unique way, which I think makes them Japanese and not Chinese. And that applies to any countries’ inventions. All countries have done this throughout history.
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' |, E" C( ~- ]* o9 m8 X我认为这是一个不公平的问题。有很多事情可以归入这一类,但这取决于标准是什么。% r  b9 }; h- a! M
( Q- {& ?% D+ t6 k  O- z" X现在,你可以说热狗是一个美国人的发明,但实际上不是美国人的,因为面包是从欧洲带来的,和香肠一样。+ e% {  h) L" w9 Y+ j* s

+ ~) h( T% a2 `5 s你可以说千层面是意大利人发明的,其实际上来自外国。意大利面食是通过中国传入意大利的(马可·波罗把它带过来的),西红柿是在哥伦布登陆后从美洲传入欧洲的,奶酪是从印度传入欧洲的。( g2 W3 b  Q  G* z+ s
你也可以说中国茶是真正的印度茶,因为茶最初是从印度传入中国的。或者,香港蛋挞实际上是欧洲的,因为它们来自欧洲;或者,四川菜实际上是墨西哥菜,因为墨西哥才有辣椒。, P/ Q& T' V9 w- t/ A0 b; Z0 D
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* |8 g" P5 Q) R6 S9 t( 本文已被整理选入“国外译帖”栏目,欢迎大家阅读:http://www.kanshij.com/community/country/canada/17486.html
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