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美国网民:为什么中国没有贫民窟而美国有很多?


Why are there no slums in China while there’s a lot of slums in America?
译者:unknown     发布时间:2020-11-10     超过 0 位网友阅读

因为中国的城市在不断扩张,有大量的新工作和社会流动




Why are there no slums in China while there’s a lot of slums in America?

为什么中国没有贫民窟,而美国有很多?

为什么中国没有贫民窟而美国有很多?





When I informed her of this risk months ago, I saw her for the first time, who was a plump 20 something, without bra, carrying a baby in her arms, supposedly from the suburban area, with the floor of her bedroom littered with all kinds of used tissues, and her two younger brothers jumping around from one side of the room to another.
The current slum I live in gives me a portrait of the real life of the grassroots, warts and all. They typify the underclass comprising the migrant workers taking menial jobs in the city and the locals living on social welfare for various reasons.
The elders play mahjong 24/7.
They remind me of my late grandpa, who used up every penny he earned on himself everyday, rather than on his 4 kids working as laborers at early ages.
This kind of irresponsibilty and laziness has rendered my city the Internet celebrity, a mecca for every Chinese who resents work-life imbalance.

几个月前,我就告知她往窗户外倒水的风险,我第一次见到她,她是个胖子,20来岁,没有戴胸罩,怀里还抱着个孩子,据说是从郊区来的,卧室地板上到处都是各种用过的纸巾,她的两个弟弟从房间的一边跳到另一边。

我现在住的贫民窟,给了我一幅真实草根生活的写照。他们代表的是下层阶级,包括在城市从事低贱工作的农民工、和因各种原因而依靠社会福利生活的本地人。
老人们7天24小时打麻将。

他们让我想起了我已故的爷爷,早年当工人的时候,他每天都会把每一分钱花光、花在自己身上,而不是花在他的四个孩子身上。

这种不负责任和懒惰,使我的城市成为了一座网红城市,成为每一个讨厌工作和生活不平衡的中国人的圣地。

So, this slum is an epitome of the ever-widening gap between the rich and the poor in a new first-tier city in China.
There are old ladies that would collect the trash from the dumpster at midnight with a flashlight in my community. They suggested that I should strike out on my own and stop relying on my mom as an unemployed person, when they saw me appear in the community at 10 am with some veggies I bought from the local street market, alone, and never felt ashamed of my reclusive life. It’s understandable because most of them have such children or grandchildren at home, whose relish for computer games repulses them.
I felt rather reluctant to explain to them how often I deal with millionaires or billionaires in my working place, so I remained silent when they offered me some “pragmatic” or “empirical” experiences to improve my seemingly “unemployed” status.
The man living on the fourth floor, who is also the janitor of our community, is so self-serving that he didn’t relent when arguing with the pathetic lady living on the second floor, whose husband has been paralyzed for years. He assailed her for her unwillingness to pay for the plumbing together with the other residents in this building, despite the fact that the government has already changed the section of plumbing for her.
What can she do, aside from sobbing?

所以,这个贫民窟是中国一个新一线城市贫富差距不断扩大的缩影。

在我的社区里,有一些老太太会在午夜里用手电筒从垃圾桶里收集垃圾。早上十点,我从本地街市买蔬菜、出现在社区的时候,当他们看到我时,就会建议我应该依靠自己,而不要依靠我妈妈,不要当一个失业人员,我从来没有为自己的独居生活感到羞耻。这是可以理解的,因为他们中的大多数人家里都有像我这样的孩子或孙子,他们对电脑游戏的沉迷令老人们反感。

我很不愿意向他们解释我在工作场所与百万富翁或亿万富翁打交道的频率,所以当他们给我提供一些“务实”或“经验性”的建议、来改善我貌似“失业”的状况时,我会保持沉默。

住在四楼的男人,也是我们社区的看门人,他非常的自私。在与住在二楼的可怜的女士争吵时,他一点也不会让步。二楼女士的丈夫已经瘫痪多年,他指责女士不愿意和这栋楼的其他居民一起支付修水管的费用,尽管政府已经为那位女士将她那一部分的水管更换掉了。

除了哭,她还能做什么?

Soon, tragedy descended on me, when I refused and criticized their negligence of food hygiene. One outraged girl then attacked me with expletives first and then pounded her fists in my arms. The police later came, informing me that this family is notorious for their past in prison and therefore any attempts to educate them is futile.
Considering that they are currently caught up in financial strait, the community went to great length to find them a business right in front of their apartment, only to find that this measure backfired. Patronage is of little avail when education is lagging behind.
In the midst of such neighbors, you can hardly find any orderly and respectable families. As I come of age, such families gradually moved out of this slum, since they are disenchanted with the possibilities of having such derelict apartments dismantled by the municipal government of Chengdu.
As a result, the cultural and social milieu of this neighborhood has been deteriorating, with the soaring housing price and the on-going urbanization being the catalyst.
Living in such place, any rational being is on the brink of a nervous breakdown on a daily basis.
Fortunately, I bought an apartment of my own 2 years ago at 1.7 million, which can help me get rid of the slum once in a while.
I feel at ease with my new neighbors-mostly civil servants, because I grew up with them before I turned 17.

很快,当我拒绝并批评他们忽视食品卫生时,悲剧降临到我身上了。一个愤怒的女孩先是咒骂并攻击我,然后用拳头猛击我的手臂,后来警察来了,警察告诉我,这个家庭因为之前进过局子而臭名昭著,因此任何教育他们的企图都是徒劳的。

考虑到他们目前的经济困境,社区做了大量工作、为他们在公寓前找了一份生意,结果却发现这一措施适得其反。当教育跟不上的时候,帮扶是起不到作用的。

在这种邻里中,你找不到任何井然有序、体面的家庭。随着我年龄的增长,体面的家庭都搬出了这个贫民窟,因为他们对成都市政府拆除这些破败公寓的可能性不再抱有幻想了。
结果是,随着房价飙升和正在进行的城市化的影响,这个社区的文化和社会环境不断恶化。

生活在这样的地方,任何理性的人每天都处于神经崩溃的边缘。
幸运的是,两年前我以170万买了一套属于自己的公寓,这可以帮助我偶尔摆脱贫民窟。
我对我的新邻居(大部分是公务员)感到放心,因为我在17岁之前、是跟他们一起长大了。

P.S. Some people regard me as an uneducated brat brought up in the slum and had to rely on “translation device” to write this post.
LOL. Would you please read my profile before making such shallow comments or even slander?
This is my mom’s apartment, which I only occasionally visited on vacations when I grew up and only began to live more regularly in after my graduation from college.
I was brought up in the municipal government dorm with CCP officials, not with underclass.
My TOEFL is 109 out of 120. I can write posts on my own, without translation apps.
Comments disabled. I’d better focus on my financial products.
P.S. Some told me this is not a slum. Well, this is the worst Chengdu city can present to you, whatever it’s called.

PS: 有人认为我是在贫民窟长大的,是一个没受过教育的孩子,写这篇文章必须依靠“翻译工具”。

哈哈,作出如此浅薄的评论甚至诽谤之前,请你先看一下我的简介?
这是我妈妈的公寓,我长大后只偶尔去度假,大学毕业后才开始更经常地住在那里。

我是在市政府的宿舍里和公务员一起长大的,而不是和下层阶级一起长大的。
我的托福成绩是109分,满分是120分。我可以自己写文章,不需要翻译APP。
已经关评论了,我还是专注于我的金融产品把。

再PS: 有人告诉我这里不是贫民窟,好吧,这是成都能提供的最差的地方了,不管你称之为什么。



Joseph Wang, studied at Ph.D Astronomy UT Austin, Physics MIT
There are a lot of poor places in China, but there are few places that are as messed up as some of the places in the inner cities in the United States.
The difference is that the poor parts of China still have functioning social structures. So if you take a poor part of China, you still have people that are working poor, families, and even the street gangs will tend to keep the peace and manage to create a stable mini-government.
The problem with the US is that a lot of the social structures in the inner cities are gone, and no one cares. This is a long standing problem that started in the 1950’s and involve complicated things like freeway systems and the drug epidemic.
The big problem is that no one cares, and the solution has been to use militarized police to keep crime suppressed. One issue is that it’s pretty straightforward in the US to move to the suburbs where you can ignore the problem.

中国有很多贫穷的地方,但是很少有地方像美国的一些中心城市那样一团糟。
不同之处在于,中国的贫困地区仍然拥有正常的社会结构。所以,如果你在中国的贫困地区,人们仍然有工作。穷人、家庭、甚至街头帮派都倾向于维持社区和平,并设法建立一个稳定的小型“政府”。

美国的问题是,许多市中心的社会结构已经消失了,没有人去关心。这是一个长期存在的问题,始于20世纪50年代,涉及高速公路系统和du品泛滥等复杂问题。

最大的问题是没人去关心,而美国的解决办法、就是用军事化的警察来镇压犯罪。有一个问题在于,在美国,搬到郊区是很简单的,所以在美国你可以忽略这个问题。



Sydney Ma, lives in China (1993-present)

It all comes down to the household registration system (户口簿 / hukou) in place in China. The hukou system was created centuries ago under the Zhou dynasty and first mentioned in 1317 in a book written by Wenxian Tongkao.0
Basically, the hukou system restricts people’s mobility around the country and ‘tie’ them to the city / town / village where they are registered. Where you are registered depends on where your parents are registered.
How does one restrict mobility around the country you may ask? Not residing in your place of registration means that:
You can’t get access to public education, you may if there is room but you will have to pay a huge fee nonetheless.
You can’t get subsidized healthcare in public hospitals, you have to pay the entire cost of it with your own money.
You can’t get access to certain jobs that are reserved to local residents, don’t even try to apply you’ll be denied.
You can’t get access to public administrative services, for example if you need to get some documents.
You can’t get any sort of welfare benefits like free food, public housing, handouts and other sorts of assistance.

这一切都要归结于中国的现行户籍制度,户口制度创建于几千年前的周朝,于1317年在《文献通考》一书中首次被提及。
基本上,户籍制度限制了人们在全国范围内的流动,并将人们绑定在他们所处的城市/乡镇/农村中,你在哪里登记、取决于你父母在哪里登记。

你可能会问,如何限制全国的流动性?不居住在你的注册地意味着:
·你无法接受公共教育,如果有学位的话、你可以接受公共教育,但你仍然需要支付大量费用。
·你无法在公立医院获得医疗补贴,你必须用自己的钱支付全部费用。
·你无法获得为当地居民保留的某些岗位,甚至都不要试图去申请,你将被拒绝。
·您无法享受公共管理服务,例如,如果您需要获取一些文档。
·你无法获得任何福利,如免费食品、公共住房、救济金和其他援助。



Su Chao, Software Engineer, lives in Shanghai
There are mini slums in China, but would only exist temporarily.
Mini slums generally form around temporary city garbage/refuse dumping grounds and old vacant neighborhoods waiting to be demolished.
Residents in those mini-slums are mostly garbage sorters (home and work place)and unskilled workers new to the city or between jobs (rent free), but sometimes people in economic or mental trouble (have no home to go back). Today, residents in a mini-slum almost never exceeds a hundred. However, back in the late 90s and early 00s, there were slums containing thousands in rusty cities.
These mini-slums will disappear after a while, because:
1、Urbanization is ongoing in China and cities are expanding. Yesterday’s garbage dump is tomorrow’s shopping mall.
2、The police will constantly check on the residents because this is how public security is guaranteed in China: knowing everyone about their where, who and what. Besides it is unlawful to stay on a garbage dump unless you work there, or in a to-be-demolished village no mater what. Most of the time, the police will let you stay if you really don’t have a place to go (probably not in Beijing), but the police will give you plenty warnings and evict you by force if demolition starts.
3、People move on. Except for the garbage sorters, mini-slums are only served as emergency shelters for some desperate people. These desperate people still have family and friends. They take a shot at life in cities. If they succeed, they will move in apartments, however small. If they fail, they will go to another city, or go home. For those mentally ill, the police will provide temporary custody, but will throw them back to their families like hot potato once identified. The police normally have no budget on housing and feeding homeless and often pay out officers’ own pockets.
So to answer this question why there are little or no slums in China: ongoing city expansion, plenty of new jobs and social mobility.

中国有小型贫民窟,但只会暂时存在

这种小型贫民窟、通常形成于城市的临时垃圾倾倒场、和等待拆除的老旧空置社区周围。
这些小贫民窟的居民大多是垃圾分类工(家庭和工作场所)和城市新来的非熟练工人,但有时也有面临经济或精神问题的人(无家可归)。现今,一个小贫民窟的居民几乎不可能超过100人。然而,早在90年代末和00年代初,在“铁锈城市”里就有数以千计的贫民窟。

这些小贫民窟将在一段时间后消失,因为:

1.中国正在进行城市化建设,城市规模不断扩大。昨天的垃圾场,可能明天就是购物中心

2.警察会经常进行巡查,因为这就是中国的公共安全保障:了解每个人的位置、他们是谁、是干什么的。此外,除非你在垃圾场工作,否则呆在垃圾场上是违法的;无论什么情况下,你待在一个即将被拆除的村庄里都是违法的。大多数时候,如果你真的没有地方去,警察会让你留下来(北京可能不是这样),但如果拆迁开始了,警察会给你很多警告、并强行驱逐。

3.人们在不断前行。除了垃圾分类工,小贫民窟只是一些绝望的人的紧急避难所。这些绝望的人仍然有家人和朋友。他们在城市里尝试生活,如果他们成功了,他们将搬进公寓,无论多么小的公寓。如果他们失败了,他们则会去另一个城市,或者回老家。对于那些精神病患者,警方将提供临时监护,但一旦确认身份,就会将他们送回家人身边。警方通常没有住房和救济无家可归者的预算,而且常常会自己掏腰包。

所以我要回答这个问题,为什么中国很少或根本没有贫民窟:因为中国的城市在不断扩张,有大量的新工作和社会流动。



Shin Lee
As I am writing this piece, I am laying on the chairs of the Beijing international airport waiting for the flight heading to New York City. I spent my past two weeks in my hometown in China. I have been thinking about this subject too. It may be different than what other people give. But here it is:
The whole reason is: mix-use development.
In China, real estate development, especially in the cities tend to be mix-use. The lower level is shopping mallls, food halls, restaurants. The middle level is movie theaters, hotels. The upper level is residentials. The malls, restaurants, food halls not only serves office workers and resiendets upstairs but also attract people afar. The offfice workers and residents upstairs in turn support the business downstairs.
In the US, the mix-use is not many. In my town, apartments/ condos are standalone. You have to drive/walk to do shopping. If the apartment /condos happen to have poor residents. It is likely to become slum.

写这条答案的时候,我正躺在北京国际机场的椅子上,等待飞往纽约的航班。过去的两周,我在中国的家乡度过。我也一直在思考这个问题,我的答案可能不同于其他人的,我是这样想的::

整体原因是:建筑的混合发展。

在中国,房地产开发,特别是城市房地产开发,往往是混合使用。下层是购物中心、食品商店、餐厅;中间层是电影院、旅馆;上层是住宅。商场、餐厅、食品商店不仅为上班族服务、也能为楼上的居民服务,还能吸引远处的人。楼上的办公室职员和居民反过来也支持了楼下的生意。

在美国,建筑混合使用并不多。在我的镇上,公寓是du立的,你必须开车/步行去购物。如果公寓碰巧有贫困居民,则很可能会变成贫民窟。



Richard Li, Knows a thing or two about China
How do you get slums in the west?
Social housing projects? Large patches of government land that is being squatted on?
China doesn’t have slums on the same degree as some other nations because it’s urban planning, city evolution, national policies etc do not encourage the existence of such social conditions.
Chinese cities are all going through rapid expansions, some areas what were previously considered as low socio-economic housing are being overtaken by urban sprawl. People living in this areas are becoming overnight millionaires because of the compensations they received from the government.
Hukou registration limits people’s movement so that you don’t get a lot of low income household concentrated in the cities.
No private ownership of land means government can develop land according to the cities growing need.
There’s no social housing projects because as a communist country, the government guaranteed living quarters no matter who you are as long as your registration is in that city.

西方是如何有贫民窟的呢?
社会住房项目?大片政府土地被占领?

中国的城市规划、城市演变、国家政策等都不鼓励这种社会状况的存在,因此中国没有其他国家那样的贫民窟。

中国城市都在经历快速扩张,一些以前被认为是“低经济价值住房”的地区正在被城市扩张所占领。生活在这一地区的人们由于得到政府的补偿,一夜之间成为了百万富翁。
户口登记限制了人们的流动,这样就不会有太多低收入家庭集中在城市里。

不存在土地私有制,这意味着政府可以根据城市日益增长的需求来进行开发土地。
不存在社会住房项目,因为作为一个GC主义国家,无论你是谁,只要你的户籍在那个城市,政府都会为你提供保障性住房。



Ian Emery, Experience in Importing from and Exporting to China
I have visited and lived for short periods in China since 2008, and the photos and descxtions she gives are entirely familiar to me; the old, rundown city areas being left behind as the local CCP build a new version of the city NEXT to the old city.
The old men and women sweeping the streets looking for cardboard, plastic and drinks cans to sell for a few RMB, from pre-dawn - late into the night, even in the NEW city areas.
Of course, the NEW city deteriorates into slums as bad as the old city pretty quickly, building standards are poor, and upkeep non existent.
Visiting my inlaws for the first time in 2010, I thought their decrepit apartment building must have been built in the 1950’s; it was built in 1992, and pulled down as too dangerous to leave standing in 2012.
The new apartment block already looks 30–40 years old.

自2008年期,我曾短暂到访过中国,上面答主给出的照片和描述对我来说都是耳熟能详的。老旧、破败的城市区域被抛在了脑后,因为当地政府在老城旁边建设了新城市。
扫街的老年人在寻找旧纸板、塑料和饮料罐,用来卖一些钱,从黎明到深夜都是这样,甚至在新城区也是这样。

当然了,新城市很快就恶化称了跟老城区一样的贫民窟,因为建筑标准比较差,而且也没有保养。

2010年,我第一次到访丈母娘家,我想他们那破旧的公寓肯定是50年代建的,然而它是1992年建的,2012年因为太过危险而被拆除了。
这个新公寓看起来已经有30-40年时间了。

This is the courtyard right next to the business hotel* I was staying in; this looks pretty much like the block one of my wife’s aunties lives in, and who we visited last Christmas.
Somehow I have lost two folders full of photos from my 2014 and 2018 visits, but this slum is still there.
The romantically named “Peoples Liberation Army Supply Depot and Hotel”

这是我住的商务酒店旁的院子,看起来很像我妻子一个阿姨住的街区,我们在去年圣诞节的时候拜访了她。

不止怎地,我丢失了两个装满照片的文件夹,里面都是我2014年和2018年到访中国的照片,但这种贫民窟在中国仍然存在。

这家酒店被浪漫的命名为“大明家军供酒店”



David C. Maness, lived in The United States of America

I found this slum within the shadow of a posh hotel in Beijing, just near the U.S. embassy and Chaoyang Park. I loved it and preferred to hang our with the people there. It was really dark at night. It did not appear on any maps. The buildings were informal. The haircut costed less than an American barber’s tip. There was always a table with people playing games. Most of the people were from rural areas and didn’t have residence permits. The bathrooms were a hole in the ground. Among a city of 20 million nouveaux riches, it was an island of authenticity. I wonder if it still exists.

我在北京一家豪华酒店的阴影下发现了这个贫民窟,就在美国大使馆和朝阳公园附近。我喜欢那里,喜欢和那里的人一起玩耍。晚上真的很黑,它没有出现在任何地图上。这些建筑是不正规的。在这里、理发的费用比美国理发师的小费还要便宜。总有一张桌子上有人在玩牌,大多数人来自农村,没有居住证。浴室就是在地上挖了个洞。在一座拥有2000万新富的城市中,它就是一座岛屿,我想知道它是否还存在。



Robert Devaux
I would guess you haven’t done much traveling outside of wealthy financial centers or tourist areas.
The truth is many hundreds of millions of people still live in remote and largely undeveloped rural areas and villages. While I don’t think the term ‘slum’ is appropriate as that implies an urban setting, the quality of life and access to essential services (police, fire, schools, high speed internet, etc) is spotty at best. I have spent a lot of time in places like this across the country.
Finally, most cities do have what could be called slums. The are typically temporary houses or old neighborhoods that are awaiting demolition. They are typically extremely poor areas with crumbling infrastructure and many other issues.

我猜,你没有在富裕的金融中心或旅游区以外进行过太多的旅行。事实上,仍然有数亿人生活在偏远、欠发达的农村地区和村庄里。虽然我不认为用“贫民窟”这个词来形容是恰当的,因为“贫民窟”意味着处于城市环境里,但生活质量和获得基本服务(警察、消防、学校、高速互联网等)的机会参差不齐,我花了很长的时间,在全国这样的地方待过很长的时间。

最后说一句,大多数城市都有所谓的“贫民窟”,通常都是些等待拆除的临时房屋或老旧社区,它们通常都是些极端贫困的区域,基础设施崩塌,还有许多其他的问题。


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