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美媒:中国开采铜矿危及阿富汗历史佛教寺院


Chinese Copper Mine In Afghanistan Threatens 2,600-Year-Old Buddhist Monastery
译者:神州飞龙     发布时间:2013-06-30     超过 0 位网友阅读

16亿中国人的物欲会对全球造成破坏至少会对环境和文化宝藏造成不可逆转的破坏。唯一的解决办法就是减少 3/4 的中国人口,无论以什么手段。

原贴地址: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/14/chinese-copper-mine-afghanistan-mes-aynak-_n_783315.html


Chinese Copper Mine In Afghanistan Threatens 2,600-Year-Old Buddhist Monastery
HEIDI VOGT   | 
 
MES AYNAK, Afghanistan — It was another day on the rocky hillside, as archaeologists and laborers dug out statues of Buddha and excavated a sprawling 2,600-year-old Buddhist monastery. A Chinese woman in slacks, carrying an umbrella against the Afghan sun, politely inquired about their progress.
MES AYNAK, 
 
阿富汗( MES AYNAK 是喀布尔附近一座废弃的苏联铜矿,原为塔利班训练营)——在石质山坡上,考古工作者和工人们又开始一天的工作,他们正在发掘一群佛像和一座 2600 年前的庞大寺院,一位穿着宽松长裤撑着太阳伞的中国妇女在一旁礼貌地询问着他们的工作进展。
 
She had more than a passing interest. The woman represents a Chinese company eager to develop the world's second-biggest unexploited copper mine, lying beneath the ruins.
 
她对发掘的兴趣并非出于爱好,她所代表的中国公司希望能够开发世界第二大的未开采铜矿。而这座铜矿就在 眼前的遗址之下。
 
The mine is the centerpiece of China's drive to invest in Afghanistan, a country trying to get its economy off the ground while still mired in war. Beijing's $3.5 billion stake in the mine – the largest foreign investment in Afghanistan by far – gets its foot in the door for future deals to exploit Afghanistan's largely untapped mineral wealth, including iron, gold and cobalt. The Afghan government stands to reap a potential $1.2 billion a year in revenues from the mine, as well as the creation of much-needed jobs.

这座矿山就是驱动中国来阿富汗投资的马达,深陷战争的阿富汗(希望以此)发展经济。北京持有该矿山 35 亿美元的股份——这也是迄今为止阿富汗的到的最大外国投资——这也将北京的脚踏进阿富汗的矿产财富之门中,这些未探明的矿产包括铁,金还有钴。阿富汗政府每年(可靠矿产)取得 12 亿美元的潜在收入,当然还能得到急需的就业机会。
 
But Mes Aynak is caught between Afghanistan's hopes for the future and its history. Archaeologists are rushing to salvage what they can from a major seventh century B.C. religious site along the famed Silk Road connecting Asia and the Middle East. The ruins, including the monastery and domed shrines known as "stupas," will likely be largely destroyed once work at the mine begins.

Mes Aynak 连接着阿富汗的过去和未来,考古工作者正在对其进行抢救性挖掘,这里 7 世纪时曾经是连接亚洲和中东的闻名于世的丝绸之路上的宗教中心。 Mes Aynak 遗址包括寺院和半球形的“佛塔”(多为丘型结构内有佛像可以非常大的宗教场所,不是西湖边那种),如果铜矿开始开采,遗址很可能被大范围破坏。
 
Hanging over the situation is the memory of the Buddhas of Bamiyan – statues towering up to 180 feet high in central Afghanistan that were dynamited to the ground in 2001 by the country's then-rulers, the Taliban, who considered them symbols of paganism.

有关巴米扬大佛的记忆还萦绕心头——矗立在阿富汗中部高达 180 英尺的大佛 2001 年被当时的掌权者塔利班炸毁,塔利班认为巴米扬大佛是异教标志。
 
No one wants to be blamed for similarly razing history at Mes Aynak, in the eastern province of Logar. The Chinese government-backed China Metallurgical Group Corp., or MCC, wanted to start building the mine by the end of 2011. But under an informal understanding with the Kabul government, it has given archaeologists three years for a salvage excavation.

没有人愿意为处于东部拉格尔省的 Mes Aynak 夷为平地负责。有中国政府背景的中国冶金工业集团希望在 2011 年底开始矿山开发,不过由于其于喀布尔政府达成了非正式协议,考古学家们有 3 年时间进行抢救性发掘。
 
Archaeologists working on the site since May say that won't be enough time for full preservation.
"That site is so massive that it's easily a 10-year campaign of archaeology," said Laura Tedesco, an archaeologist brought in by the U.S. Embassy to work on sites in Afghanistan. Three years may be enough time just to document what's there, she said.

五月就开始在遗址工作的考古学家们认为 3 年时间根本不够。
Laura Tedesco 说“这个遗址非常庞大,至少需要十年才能完成发掘”她是美国大使馆介绍来进行遗址挖掘的,他认为 3 年时间只够编写遗址的目录。
 
Philippe Marquis, a French archaeologist advising the Afghans, said the salvage effort is piecemeal and "minimal," held back by lack of funds and personnel.

Philippe Marquis 一位担任顾问的法国考古学家说抢救工作的成效不成气候或者说“极小”,而且受到资金和人员缺乏的限制。
 
Around 15 Afghan archaeologists, three French advisers and a few dozen laborers are working within the 2-square-kilometer (0.77-square-mile) area – a far smaller team than the two dozen archaeologists and 100 laborers normally needed for a site of such size and richness.

大约 15 名阿富汗考古工作者, 3 名法国顾问和几十个工人在 2 平方公里( 0.77 平方英里)的发掘现场工作——这数量远少于如此规模的遗址发掘所需要的 24 个考古工作者和 100 个工人。
 
"This is probably one of the most important points along the Silk Road," said Marquis. "What we have at this site, already in excavation, should be enough to fill the (Afghan) national museum."

Marquis 说“这可能是丝绸之路上最重要的遗迹之一,我们能从这里发掘出的文物应该足以填满阿富汗国家博物馆”
 
The monastery complex has been dug out, revealing hallways and rooms decorated with frescoes and filled with clay and stone statues of standing and reclining Buddhas, some as high as 10 feet. An area that was once a courtyard is dotted with stupas standing four or five feet high.

寺庙群已经开挖,露出了走廊和房间,这些走廊和房间都饰以壁画和或立或卧的粘土石雕佛像,有些佛像甚至有 10 英尺高。在一个曾经是庭院的地方,满布着 4-5 英尺高的佛塔。
 
More than 150 statues have been found so far, though many remain in place. Large ones are too heavy to be moved, and the team lacks the chemicals needed to keep small ones from disintegrating when extracted.

已经找到的雕像超过 150 尊还有很多埋于地下,大型雕像太重以至于无法搬运,小型雕像由于考古队缺乏必需的化学药剂无法保证其不再发掘时被破坏。
 
MCC appears to be pushing the archaeologists to finish ahead of schedule. In July, the archaeologists received a letter from the company asking that parts of the dig be wrapped up by August and the rest to be done by the end of 2010.

中国冶金工业集团似乎希望考古工作能提前完成。考古工作者们 6 月收到一封公司的信。信中要求他们 8 月前结束发掘, 2010 年底前完成所有工作。
 
A copy of the letter – signed by MJAM, the acronym for the joint venture in charge of the mine, MCC-JCL Aynak Minerals Co. – was provided to The Associated Press by the head of the archaeological team. MCC and MJAM officials did not respond to requests for comment.

MJAM 是对铜矿进行联合投资的中冶集团和江铜艾娜克矿业有限公司的缩写,这封署名 MJAM 的信的复印件被考古队长交给了美联社记者,中冶集团和 MJAM 都没有对这封信做出官方回应。
 
August has come and gone, and excavations at Mes Aynak continue. But the Afghan archaeologist overseeing the dig said he has no idea when MCC representatives might tell him his work is over. So he tries not to think about deadlines.

八月来了又去了, MES AYNAK 的发掘还在进行,不过监管发掘的阿富汗考古学家说他不知道中冶集团的代表什么时候会告诉他他的工作完了,所以他试着不去想发掘的期限。
 
"We would like to work according to our principles. If we don't work according to the principles of archaeology, then we are no different from traffickers," Abdul Rauf Zakir said.
The team hopes to lift some of the larger statues and shrines out before winter sets in this month, but they still haven't procured the crane and other equipment needed.

Abdul Rauf Zakir 说“我们想要按自己的原则工作,如果不遵循考古原则,那我们和无良商贩就没有不同”考古队希望本月在冬天到来之前将一些大型雕像和佛龛运走,可是他们还没有找到起重机和相关必需设备。
 
Mes Aynak, 20 miles (30 kilometers) south of Kabul, lies in a province that is still considered a major transit route for insurgents coming from Pakistan. In July, two U.S. sailors were kidnapped and killed in Logar. Around 1,500 Afghan police guard the mine site and the road.
Promised funding from foreign governments has yet to materialize. The Afghan government has allotted $2 million for the dig and is trying to find another $5 million to $10 million, said Deputy Culture Minister Omar Sultan.

位于喀布尔以南 20 英里( 30 公里)的 MES AYNAK 所处的省份仍被视为巴基斯坦叛乱分子的主要转运路线。 6 月,两名美国士兵在拉格尔被劫持并杀害,大约 1500 名阿富汗警察在遗址和相关道路附近巡逻。文化部副部长 Omar Sultan 说外国政府承诺的资金还未到位,阿富汗政府已经拨款 200 万美元进行发掘,还差 500-1000 万美元的挖掘款没有着落。
 
The United States has promised funding but hasn't yet figured out how much, said a U.S. Embassy spokeswoman, Mireille Zieseniss.
Mes Aynak's religious sites and copper deposits have been bound together for centuries – "mes" means "copper" in the local Dari language. Throughout the site's history, artisanal miners have dug up copper to adorn statues and shrines.

美国大使馆发言人 Mireille Zieseniss 宣布美国已经承诺提供资金但是没有说明数额。
Mes Aynak 的宗教遗迹和铜矿时代共存,在当地的 Dari 语中“ mes ”就是“铜”,历史上的手工采矿者已经挖出过铜来装饰雕像和佛龛。
 
Afghan archaeologists have known since the 1960s about the importance of Mes Aynak, but almost nothing had been excavated. When the Chinese won the contract to exploit the mine in 2008, there was no discussion with Kabul about the ruins – only about money, security and building a railroad to transport the copper out of Logar's dusty hills.

从 1960 年代起阿富汗的考古学家们就知道 Mes Aynak 的重要意义,但是挖掘工作几乎没有进行。 2008 年中国赢得矿山的开采合同时,他们根本没有跟喀布尔讨论遗址的问题——他们讨论的只是钱,安全,修建铁路把铜从拉格尔的土山中运出去。
 
But a small band of Afghan and French archaeologists raised a stir and put the antiquities on the agenda.
The mine could be a major boost for the Afghan economy. According to the Afghan Mining Ministry, it holds some 6 million tons of copper (5.52 million metric tons), worth tens of billions of dollars at today's prices. Developing the mine and related transport infrastructure will generate much needed jobs and economic activity.

不过一小帮阿富汗和法国的考古学家们打破了这一场面将 Mes Aynak 古迹搬上议程。
矿业可以对阿富汗经济形成巨大推动,阿富汗矿业部的资料显示, Mes Aynak 含有 600 万吨铜( 552 万公吨),以现在的铜价该矿价值数百亿美元。开发矿山和相关的运输基础设施可以产生大量急需的工作岗位也能带动其他商业活动。
 
Waheedullah Qaderi, a Mining Ministry official working on the antiquities issue, said MCC shares the government goal of protecting heritage while starting mining as soon as possible.

矿业部负责 Mes Aynak 古迹事物的工作人员 Waheedullah Qaderi 表示中冶集团将于政府共担历史遗产保护的责任同时也将尽快进行铜矿开采。
 
A good resolution is important for MCC "because it is their first-ever project in Afghanistan," Qaderi said. MCC is expected to make an offer for another lucrative mineral prize – the Hajigak iron mine in central Afghanistan, estimated to hold 1.9 billion tons (1.8 billion metric tonnes) of iron ore. Kabul opened bidding to develop the mine in late September and is expected to award the contract late this year or in early 2011.

Qaderi 说“因为这是他(中冶集团)在阿富汗的第一个项目”所以( Mes Aynak 的保护发掘)对中冶集团至关重要。中冶集团希望(通过 Mes Aynak 的保护发掘)赢得另一个获利丰厚的矿业奖品—— Hajigak (离喀布尔较近,气候恶劣,全年大部分时间被积雪覆盖)铁矿,该矿位于阿富汗中部,据估计铁矿石储量约 19 亿吨( 18 亿公吨)。喀布尔在今年九月已对矿山开发开放投标,预计来发合同将于今年底或 2011 年初签署。
 
Still, a diplomat briefed on internal meetings says MCC has pressured Kabul to stop archaeologists from looking for new places to dig beyond the 12 sites already found. The diplomat spoke anonymously because of the sensitivity of the issue.

不过一位外交部人员在内部会议上说中冶集团已经对喀布尔施压以阻止考古工作者们寻找已发现的 12 出遗迹以外的新遗迹进行发掘。由于事件的敏感性这位外交部工作者是匿名的。
 
Marquis said MCC has been cooperative and has helped the archaeologists, hauling dirt away and asking what more needs to be done.
Zakir, the Afghan archaeologist, laughs. "Yes, they are very helpful. They want to help so that we can finish quickly. They want us gone."
 
Marquis 说中冶集团一直保持合作对考古工作很有帮助,他们运走考古工作的废料还询问能不能帮更多的忙。阿富汗考古工作者 Zakir 笑着说“当然,他们很有帮助,他们希望能帮我们快点结束,他们想我们走。”



moonflowerjewelry      06:45 PM on 11/14/    479 Fans
Bit by bit the earth is becoming less a beautiful home than a scifi wasteland. Oceans, forests, countless species and historical/cultural treasures: *nothing more* than grist for the mill.  This saddens me.
 
地球一点点的变得不再是美丽的家园,她会像是科幻小说一样成为荒原。海洋,森林,无数的物种,历史文化宝藏 * 都不过是 * 能获利之物。这真让我伤感。



msjimmied      07:56 PM on 11/14/   599 Fans
Fanned...It was tough reading this, cos I know how it's going to turn out. I wish there were more recording of the treasures, even if it's just on film and photographs, a history preserved...
 
关注 ~ 读到这则消息真是辛酸,因为我知道最后会怎样。我希望我们能有更多这种宝藏的记录,哪怕只是影像或者照片,这是被封存的历史 ~~



thole489      08:19 PM on 11/14/   145 Fans
So true. Sad, but true. Fanned
 
是真的,很悲哀但是真的。关注。



GeeDeeJay      09:27 PM on 11/14/    27 Fans
What's ugly about a Mercedes Benz CLK 350, a full tank of super premium, Mozart on the satellite radio, a giant coffee with vanilla cream, my beautiful wife of 32 yrs sitting next to me,......................& a nice long stretch of interstate highway ahead! If that isn't human progress, then I don't know what is. I love capitalism.
 
奔驰 CLK350 可真难看,一整箱高级油,卫星收音机里放着莫扎特,一大杯加了香草味奶油的咖啡,我 32 岁的漂亮老婆坐在我身边 ~~~ 优质的州际公路伸向远方!如果这不是人类的进步我就不知道什么是进步了。我爱资本主义。



moonflowerjewelry      08:46 AM on 11/15/   479 Fans
geedeejay, i'm NOT putting you, your wife or your existence down. I can have compassion and respect for the natural (you know, our life support system on spaceship earth) and your personal values. Unfortunately, everyone has the greedy gimmes, so don't come crying when your kids, or grandkids inherit a planet that doesn't have drinkable water, breathable air or "infinite" resources. Enjoy the fun now, and pretend that someone else isn't paying the cost. Okay, I guess that was sort of a put down, and I stand corrected...
 
geedeejay ,我不想打击你或是你的妻子,我同情又尊重自然(你知道的,就是搭载我们的生命支持系统的宇宙飞船)还有你的个人价值观。不幸的是每个人都有贪婪的欲望,所以如果你的孩子也可能是孙子继承的地球没有可饮用的水,可呼吸的空气也没有“无限的”资源时,你可不要哭。及时行乐吧,假装没有人会为(现在的行乐)付出代价。好吧,我猜这可能会打击到你,我认错。



Green Knight      12:33 AM on 11/15/  64 Fans
China controls 98% of the earth's rare minerals now. Isn't it great that our troops are dying there to make it safe for Chinese corporations to exploit Afghanistan's resources. I wonder how much our bloated, growing debt with China has to do with this arrangement. What a disgusting group our "leaders" are.
 
中国现在控制着 98% 的稀土,我们的军队却死在阿富汗以保卫中国公司开采阿富汗资源,是不是太伟大了?中国持有很多我们的债券,而且越来越多,我想知道阿富汗的安排是不是受到了这种影响?我们的“领袖”可真令人作呕。



roninroshi      12:44 AM on 11/15/  213 Fans Follow
You nailed it...F/F
 
说到点子上了 ~~



FoxIslander      01:39 AM on 11/15/   118 Fans
yup...that pretty much sums it up...
 
呦呼 ~~ 总结的不错 ~~



SmolderingRuin      03:28 AM on 11/15/   313 Fans
Too right. #10
 
非常正确。



longtimegone      03:32 AM on 11/15/    144 Fans
The faux furor over the Taliban's destruction of the Buddha statues now seems like the pure war hype that it actually was, as there is no way the U.S. will raise even a whimper over China's capitalist inspired Buddha destruction.
 
以前那种对塔利班损毁佛像假惺惺的愤怒现在看上去根本就是夸大其词的战前宣传,嗯确实是宣传,因为现在中国资本家们也在破坏佛像而美国连一声都没吭。



chaserblue      11:49 PM on 11/14/  42 Fans
We fight a war and the Chinese loot the historical sites for minerals and metals...
And of course we owe the Chinese billions of dollars. So our blood for their copper...
Ain't progress grand?
 
我们打仗而中国人为了矿产和金属掠夺古迹 ~~
当然我们欠中国数十亿美元所以我们为他们的铜矿流血(牺牲) ~~
是不是巨大的进步?



justan olnamvet      09:52 AM on 11/15/   40 Fans
Blood doesn't pay against the debt.
 
流血也没还清债。



ipresumelikely      04:15 AM on 11/15/  82 Fans
Well we did say we were fighting to bring them freedom. Now they have the freedom to do business with China instead of US. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha Love that "free market".
 
好吧,我们以前说我们为他们的自由而战,现在他们拥有了不和美国而和中国做生意的自由。哈哈哈,有爱的“自由市场”



jdmn17      10:21 PM on 11/14/   251 Fans Follow
So let's get this straight. We are fighting in Afghan so the Chinese can pillage the raw materials of said country. So American men and women are dying for Chinese companies to make money? Whew! I thought our government had sold out to American companies, now it seems they sold our men and women off to the Chinese too. Sickening. We fight and spend the money we need at home, China doesn't fight but gets to profit at home with the raw materials being turned into copper wire they'll sell at the local US lumberyard. Any teabaggers watching this? Anyone else angry?
 
那我们直说吧,我们在阿富汗打仗所以中国才能掠夺阿富汗的原材料,这么说来美国的男男女女是为了让中国公司赚钱才去死的?真混蛋!我以为美国政府已经把自己卖给了美国公司,现在看来他们还把美国人卖给了中国公司。我们把国内急需的钱拿去打仗,中国不参加战斗却在家坐享其成,原材料会变成铜线在美国当地的堆场里出售。茶党的人看到这一切了吗?就没人为此愤怒吗?



joeyc      12:04 AM on 11/15/    54 Fans
LOL. And not only are our soldiers dying so that this Chinese corporation can cash-in, but we are expediting the destruction of this priceless archeological site as part of the "bargain".
 
真搞笑,我们不光派军队冒死为中国公司涌进阿富汗开路,还助纣为虐破坏无价的考古遗址,这也是“讨价还价的”一部分。



JavaJuice      06:29 PM on 11/14/    154 Fans
How fitting that the Chinese capitalists are just like the theocratic Taliban, both destroying Buddhist shrines
 
在摧毁佛教圣地方面中国的资本家和政教合一的塔利班是多么的相似啊。



dead WASP      07:05 PM on 11/14/   438 Fans
And Westerners would be all that different? Corporations/businesses are all the same, forget nationality when it comes to them: they couldn't care less about their own countries. All they care about is the all-mighty profit.
 
西方会有不同吗?公司 / 商业人士都是一样,他们没有国籍,根本不在乎他们的国家,他们关心的只是万能的利润。



dojinho      07:22 AM on 11/15/    31 Fans
"Chinese Mine Threatens Ancient Bhuddist Monastery In Afghanistan"
And the U.S. threatens everything else...
 
“中国采矿危及阿富汗古代佛教寺院”
美国威胁到其他的东西。



Julie Zhou      09:21 AM on 11/15/    161 Fans
It is so true and so sad...
 
如此真实如此悲伤。



jessicadevyn      05:49 AM on 11/15/    307 Fans
1. "Buddhist" is spelled wrong on the front page.
2. There is no way the shrine is 2,600 years old.
3. Is anyone else bothered by the idea of a Chinese mine in Afghanistan?
 
“佛教的”在首页就拼错了
不可能有 2600 历史的佛龛
(除了我们)还有其他人为中国在阿富汗的矿困扰吗?



blurredmolly      07:10 AM on 11/15/    206 Fans
"Is anyone else bothered by the idea of a Chinese mine in Afghanistan?"
No, just protecting it.
 
“(除了我们)还有其他人为中国在阿富汗的矿困扰吗?”
没有,只是保护她。



Yoda      03:08 AM on 11/15/    324 Fans
The voracious appetite of the Chinese will become a very serious global problem very soon, if not already.
With 1.6 billion Chinese, this appetite could bring a total destruction or, at the minimum, irreversible destruction to many environmental and cultural treasures.  
Perhaps the only solution is reduce the population of the Chinese by 3/4 by any means necessary.
 
中国贪婪的胃口即使现在不是全球性的问题也会马上变成问题。
16 亿中国人的物欲会对全球造成破坏至少会对环境和文化宝藏造成不可逆转的破坏。
可能唯一的解决办法就是减少 3/4 的中国人口,无论以什么手段。



jc budmo      05:25 AM on 11/15/    69 Fans
I see, so by the same logic, the voracious appetite of Americans that IS a very serious global problem should require us to reduce the American population by "all any means necessary". Bet you didn't realize the darkly racist nature of you thoughts.
 
我明白了,以相同的逻辑推断美国人贪婪的胃口造成一系列全球性问题,所以美国应该减少人口“无论以什么手段”我打赌你根本没有意识到你的想法是种族主义的邪恶本性。



Julie Zhou      05:59 AM on 11/15/    161 Fans
People like you are the most serious problem. Should you be reduced according to our logic?
 
你这种人才是最严重的问题,按我们的逻辑你是不是该消失?



USAFree1      10:15 PM on 11/14/    97 Fans
Well now. I guess we're China's war machine. We send our young men and women to fight and die so that China can exploit this region and make billions and billions in profits. We're such saps.
 
那个现在我猜我们是中国的战争机器。我们的年青人去送死,然后中国在那里采矿获利。我们真是傻瓜。



grainysmith      07:05 PM on 11/14/    267 Fans
It seems to me that the only countries that are succeeding because of our "so called" wars on the other side of the world are China and Iran. Way to go America.
 
在我看来只有中国和伊朗是我们在地球另一边的“所谓”战争中的获利者,美国加油。



flsense      06:21 PM on 11/14/   100 Fans
How many troops does China have in Afghanistan again? Just call the US uncle sucker.
 
中国在阿富汗有多少军队?只要交美国人来就行了



grainysmith      07:04 PM on 11/14/   267 Fans
and they are right next door.
 
还有他们就住隔壁。



dead WASP      07:06 PM on 11/14/    438 Fans
Yup. Nato forces do the dying, and others profit by the security [or semblance of] which follows.
 
哟,北约死战获得的安全环境(至少在表面上)被其他国家拿来牟利。



Hank007      08:40 AM on 11/15/    438 Fans
The lesson here is when you show up in a country and bomb it, the people of that country tend to give their resources to anybody but you.
 
我们得到的教训就是如果你在别的国家出场丢炸弹那个国家的人就会把他们的资源给别人而不给你。



v eyepete      05:39 AM on 11/15/   231 Fans
Why would these 'avatar-like' mining concerns worry about artifacts when thousands of American GI's and countless Afghanis have been sacrificed to find and map out where all these minerals were. All this talk of Al Q. and Tali-whatever is to feed the media, so it can feed us fear, therefore enabling the super rich to destroy us all to fill their own pockets.
 
现在有数千美国兵和无数阿富汗人为找矿和测绘送命,那些“阿凡达式的”矿业公司难道还会在乎古迹?所有那些 AI Q (伊斯兰军事组织)和塔利班的说辞只是用来养肥媒体造势,超级富翁们毁掉我们来填满他们的腰包。



darthmaul      10:53 PM on 11/14/  116 Fans
Some irony isn't it? The Taliban destroy ancient priceless historical artifacts based on a corrupt ideology while the Chinese destroy them because they only care about money.
 
是不是很荒谬?塔利班出于腐朽的思想形态摧毁了无价的历史文物而中国人出于利益也作了同样的事。



Zhuubaajie      01:32 AM on 11/15/ 58 Fans
Today's Afghanistan does not care about Buddhism - it is merely the relics of a bygone history. So why should the relics be allowed to hold up projects which taxes and fees will benefit ALL the Afghans? It is not as though they do not need it. The Afghans are not as rich as Americans, and any help is actually appreciated.
 
今天的阿富汗人不关心佛教——佛教只是遥远历史的遗存,所以为什么要让这种遗存限制能造福所有阿富汗人的项目呢?保护遗址不像你们想的那么必要,阿富汗人不像美国人那么富有,他们感激所有帮助他们的人。



FoxIslander      01:41 AM on 11/15/    118 Fans
...the net result is the same. Why the hell are we there?
 
最后还是一样的,我们干嘛要去那?



goodmarina      10:40 PM on 11/14/   672 Fans
this is very sad ... and Afghanistan is not the only developing nation that finds itself at the mercy of the Chinese govt who relentlessly pursue natural resources while offering little consideration for the longterm wellbeing (economic, environmental, cultural, etc.) of a nation or its people.
sadly ... these statues have been under attack thanks to the Afghan war as well.
 
真是悲剧 ~~ 阿富汗不是唯一一个被中国政府控制的发展中国家,中国只是无情的追求其他国家的自然资源却不考虑他国和他国人民的长期福祉(经济,环境,文化等等)



Planet Caravan      11:00 PM on 11/14/    91 Fans
I thought the Afghan government voluntarilily entered into an agreement with the Chinese?
 
我认为阿富汗政府是自愿与中国订合同的。



goodmarina      11:18 PM on 11/14/   672 Fans
isn't the phrase "Afghan Government" an oxymoron?
And ... is anyone surprised that leaders of many developing nations are crooks who put their financial interest above that of their country?
 
“阿富汗政府”是反讽的用法吗?
那个 ~~ 很多发展中国家的领导人都是骗子,他们将自己的经济利益置于国家至上,重点不是很平常嘛?



Zhuubaajie      01:35 AM on 11/15/   58 Fans
There we go again.  
The Afghans are Muslim. The buddist culture died out millenia ago. Dead, gone.  
Afghanistan is a poor nation, and opium and heroin are the biggest exports. The world will benefit when any new industry comes up to replace the income from drugs, so the Afghan people can be gainfully employed. It is not as if the rich West is sharing their wealth!!
 
又来了。阿富汗人是穆斯林,(那里的)佛教千年前就消亡了,没了,完了。阿富汗是个贫穷的国家,鸦片和海洛因就是主要出口商品。如果那里能发展新工业代替毒品世界都会受益,而且这样阿富汗人就能找工作赚钱。他不向西方国家那样分享财富。



Sam Smith      02:01 AM on 11/15/  71 Fans
Uhhhh, the Muslims took it by force and killed Buddhism off, it wasn't a natural deat..h.
 
那个,穆斯林是强行占领了阿富汗杀死佛教徒的,佛教可不是自然消亡。



darthmaul      09:16 AM on 11/15/  115 Fans
China is the new imperial power. They will get the 90% of the value of any of the ore minded. Karzai and his kleptocracy will get 9% and the people doing the actual work will get 1%.
 
中国是新型的帝国,他们获得铁矿石利润的 90% ,卡尔扎伊和他手下的强盗获得 9% 而从事实际工作的人得到 1% 。



goodmarina      11:52 AM on 11/15/   672 Fans
The Afghans are Muslims - like all oceans are polluted?  (oh wait, that is actually true). 
Why the broad assumptions -- is there only one way of uniform thinking?
Your argument is ... the poor people in Afghanistan deserve to have their natural resources & culture raped so China (or other similar nations) can gain?    How kind & thoughtful ...
(sarcasm alert)
 
阿富汗人是穆斯林——就像所有海洋都被污染?(等等,这就是事实)
为什么如此假设——这就是统一思想的唯一方法?
你的观点就是 ~~ 阿富汗穷人的自然资源文化就该被中国(或其他什么国家)夺走?真是友善又周到 ~~ (阿讽刺)



westbygoddoug      06:54 PM on 11/14/    44 Fans
Afghanistan gets raped and pillaged again. Some things never change.
 
阿富汗又一次被强奸和掠夺了,有些事永不会变。



Anaxamenes      06:45 PM on 11/14/    65 Fans
I love the comments on the Chinese just doing this for money. As if any large mining company from the US would be any different. When it comes to money, anything goes, even if you have to bulldoze a global treasure such as this. Too bad we couldn't save it and turn it into a tourist attraction to help the Afghan economy.
 
我喜欢那条说中国人只是为了钱的评论,就好像美国的大型矿业公司有什么不同似地。一说到钱,别的就顾不得了,即使是被迫铲平如此的世界宝藏。如果我们不能抢救遗迹并把他们送进旅游胜地为阿富汗获利那就太糟了。



dead WASP      07:02 PM on 11/14/  441 Fans
Exactly.
 
就是这样。



mwilbur137      07:09 PM on 11/14/    131 Fans
There are no Chinese companies, there are no American companies, there are no European companies...they are all one in the same, and their goal is global domination at the expense of all aspects of our humanity.
 
没有什么中国公司,没有什么美国公司,也没有什么欧洲公司 ~~ 他们都是一样的公司,他们的目标就是主宰世界即使人类要在各方面为此付出极大代价。



antonymous      06:30 PM on 11/14/    78 Fans
Granted that it's Chinese, if capitalism blows up the Buddhist site this time instead of Islam, does that mean We're Winning over there?
 
这就是中国人,如果资本主义这次炸掉的是伊斯兰遗址而不是佛教遗址是不是就意味着我们赢得了胜利?



quintus      07:44 PM on 11/14/   214 Fans
It's a double whammy: Chinese capitalism.
 
这是双重打击:中国的资本主义。



Dr Scott      09:24 AM on 11/15/   129 Fans
First: I recognized that Afghanistan was an untapped gold mine shortly after arriving the in 2002. It completely escapes me that American industrial interests were not encouraged to invest there early on. A person with rudimentary knowledge of modern agricultural practices could have made themselves a killing there. We are spending billions in this country and the major benefactors are Pakistan and China? No wonder our star is fading from the international sky.
Second: if the Afghan people haven't the sense to preserve their own archeological sites, let them perish. Why help them out? Do we think they'll be grateful?
 
首先:我承认在 2002 年到达那里不久我就知道阿富汗整个就是个未开发的金矿。美国工业集团早先没有在那里大力投资真是奇怪。只要具有基本现代农业知识就能去那里工作就能捞一笔。我们在阿富汗投了数不清的钱,他们却把中国和巴基斯坦当恩人?在国际性夜空中我们的星光正变暗淡。
 
其二:如果阿富汗人不想保护他们的考古遗址,就让遗址被黄土掩埋吧。为什么要帮他们?你以为他们会感激我们?



defiance777      09:54 AM on 11/15/    36 Fans Follow
Excavating those sites is SOOO not about the Afghani people. These places should be preserved for historical and spiritual value, for our children. It's a shame that something so unique is going to be destroyed. I was ticked off just reading about the Taliban blowing up those statues in 2002. Barbarians.
 
发掘这些遗址可不是为了阿富汗人。为了我们的孩子因该让这个地方做为历史和宗教象征被保留下了。损毁如此独一无二的宝藏真是令人羞耻。 2002 年看到塔利班炸毁那些大佛时我就气得要死,野蛮人。



kwyang      04:35 PM on 11/15/    9 Fans
When was this ever about the Afghan people? Do nations invade others for the good for the locals? Not only that, but would you want America to? If you had kids, do you want them to join the military and die for some foreigner without America's vital interests being at stake?  
We invaded because it was in the American national interest to deprive Bin Laden and Al Qaeda of a safe haven, that's it. Any benefit to the Afghans are incidental at best. Like Lincoln once said about slavery, if he could preserve the union     without freeing a single slave, he would. Pretty sure if America could have defeated the Taliban and Al Qaeda without giving one dollar of aid to the Afghans, we would.
 
怎么又是阿富汗人民?有国家侵略别国是为了造福他国人民的嘛?先不说这个,难道你想让美国去(造福他国)?如果你有小孩,你想让你的小孩为了外国人打仗拼命而其中完全没有美国的利益?
 
我们侵略(阿富汗)是为了美国的国家利益——夺取本拉登和塔利班的避风港,就是这样,如果有阿富汗人获益也是出于偶然。就像林肯谈到奴隶制时说的,如果不需要解放一个黑奴就能保住国家那他就一个黑奴也不放。如果美国能不花一美元援助阿富汗而打败塔利班和 AIQ (伊斯兰武装,盖达尔组织),那我们就一分都不出。



johnsonc20      10:03 AM on 11/15/    346 Fans
Is it any wonder that we are losing in Afghanistan if you an example of the sort of American that goes over there to "help?" Your selfish, greedy attitude shines through your comment and makes me want to retch. We need to preserve these sites because they are important archaeologically - not as some favor to Hamid Karzai.  
As for Afghanistan being an "untapped gold mine" - it is clear that whether US or Chinese companies exploit it, the way we have set things up in that corrupt country guarantees that outside interests get the gold mine, but the Afghan people get the shaft.
 
如果你就是那种跑去阿富汗“帮忙”的人我们在阿富汗的失败就不难理解了。你的自私贪婪在评论中闪闪发光,这真让我想吐。我们要保留这些遗址是因为他们在考古学上的重要性——而不是为了卡尔扎伊。
 
将阿富汗定义为“未开发的金矿”——很明显,无论是中国公司还是美国公司,我们在那个腐败国家所做的一切都只是保证了外来得利者保有金矿,阿富汗人只得到挖过的坑道。



observingstupiditydaily      09:04 AM on 11/15/    156 Fans Follow
"The United States has promised funding but hasn't yet figured out how much, said a U.S. Embassy spokeswoman, Mireille Zieseniss." Why? The Chinese reap the treasure and we get to "donate" to their success? I'm all for saving ancient history but last time I looked our trains aren't running on time and our bridges are in bad need of repair. WTH?
 
“美国大使馆发言人 Mireille Zieseniss 宣布美国已经承诺提供资金但是没有说明数额。 ”为什么?中国人抢夺财宝我们还要“资助”他们的事业?我举双手赞成保护古迹不过上次我发现了我们的火车不能准点到达我们的桥梁维护不足。怎么回事?



Shrinath      03:35 AM on 11/15/   19 Fans
Don't fear the Chinese govt. because they are becoming too powerful and influential. Fear them because they are trying to erase your history.
 
我们并没有因为中国变得太强大和太具影响力而畏惧他,我们怕的是中国正在试图抹去他国历史。



TorontoTamil      11:34 PM on 11/14/    2 Fans Follow
China has no regards to preserve other cultures, from Tibet to elsewhere. China is funding the demographic changing-ethnic cleansing in Sri Lanka, so the guardians of Buddhism in Sri Lanka will not speak up about what Chinese are doing in Afghanistan.
 
中国根本就不在乎别人的文化遗存,不管是吐蕃还是别的什么。中国支持斯里兰卡的种族清洗,所以斯里兰卡的佛教徒就不会对指摘中国在阿富汗的言行。



SiberianRat      11:49 PM on 11/14/ 1341 Fans
Do you have a link or something for that Sri Lanka bit? I've been there a few times and don't remember anything like that.
 
能不能给个斯里兰卡的链接?我去过那里几次,不过完全不记得有你说的那种事。



Namitanshu Vatsa      10:42 PM on 11/14/   0 Fans
"Archaeologists are rushing to salvage what they can from a major seventh century B.C. religious site along the famed Silk Road connecting Asia and the Middle East. The ruins, including the monastery and domed shrines known as "stupas," will likely be largely destroyed once work at the mine begins."
Keeping in view the fact that Buddha himself belonged to sixth-fifth century, a buddhist shrine cannot belong to seventh century B.C.. Please rectify the mistake.
 
“考古工作者正在对其进行抢救性挖掘,这里 7 世纪时曾经是连接亚洲和中东的闻名于世的丝绸之路上的宗教中心。 Mes Aynak 遗址包括寺院和半球形的“佛塔”如果铜矿开始开采,遗址很可能被大范围破坏。”
请注意以下事实,佛教史 6-7 世纪的产物,不可能有公元前 7 世纪的佛龛。请纠正这个错误。
 
* 这个要说一下,我上网查了一下,佛教起源于公元前 5-6 世纪,公元前 3 世纪被孔雀王定为国教,所以上面这位说的其实有问题 *



timenavagator      09:45 PM on 11/14/   90 Fans
This story provided a glimpse of insight into corporate adventure and sovereign rights. At least China paid someone to mine in Afghanistan instead of just moving in militarily and annexing the mines. Finally...civilized organized crime.
 
这件事为企业冒险和国家主权提供了一线灵光。至少中国还为阿富汗的矿产付出了而不是动用军队吞掉矿山。最终 ~~ 这是文明的有组织的犯罪。



tkns      08:39 PM on 11/14/   583 Fans
Great. We go to war against Afghanistan and China gets the spoils.
 
很好,我们在阿富汗打仗,中国得到战利品。



3 magi      09:13 PM on 11/14/   190 Fans
same as iraq...china bought oil leases there.
 
在伊拉克也是一样 ~~ 中国得到了石油合同。



jdmn17      10:24 PM on 11/14/  252 Fans Follow
And yet we continue to deny we have lost the economic battle with China and are heading to our own demise. Maybe some day we'll have to save Mount Rushmore before the Chinese come in and level it for the gold residue lying underneath it
 
我们现在还在否认我们已经输掉了对中国的经济战争并且正在走向灭亡。可能有天我们将不得不保护拉斯莫尔国家纪念碑(就是雕着 4 个美国总统头像的山)因为中国人会为了地下的金字把山搬开。



no exit      07:51 PM on 11/14/   332 Fans Follow
The best thing for the entire world would be if China just sank into the sea.
 
中国沉入大海才是全世界的幸事



patsydecline      09:55 PM on 11/14553 Fans
no doubt there are many who would wish that for the usa...
nor would i blame them
 
放心。还有人多人希望美国沉海呢 ~~ 但我也不会怪他们。



mmike1969      06:48 PM on 11/14/   111 Fans Follow
We are talking about a country that does not consider the environment of it's own citizens... What makes you think they care about what they do in OTHER countries...
 
我们说到的国家甚至不在乎自己国民的环境 ~~ 你又怎么会认为他会在乎别的国家呢 ~~



pinkibus      07:02 PM on 11/14/   623 Fans
mmike - the Chinese should visit America and get advice on how to destroy the environment. The Republicans could direct them to many advisors and companies. How about one of the oil companies. They spring to mind because the destruction of the Gulf is so recent but their are others too. Or how about coal. China just got into the game and has a lot to learn about America's rape and pillage of the environment.
 
中国人应该去美国咨询如何破坏环境。共和党人可以为他们引荐很多专家和公司,比如一家石油公司。他们能这样有经验是因为对海湾的破坏刚过去不久,当然还有其他的事。或者是煤炭公司,中国刚加入游戏在掠夺破坏环境方面还要向美国多多学习。



John Camp      07:24 PM on 11/14/  9 Fans
Spoken like someone who has never been to China.
 
这话说得好像这人根本没去过中国。



thewirah      06:39 PM on 11/14/   25 Fans
A pity. The Afghans are not really in a position where they can pass on a billion dollar offer and make it a tourist center.
 
很可惜,阿富汗现在可没有动用 10 亿美元(维护遗址)并(把它)修成旅游中心的能力。



Slade the Slide      06:09 PM on 11/14/   72 Fans
If they don't do it, the Taliban would have. It's such a shame that these ancient treasures are being destroyed because of some fancy thought or by money. Sickens me.
 
即使中国不做塔利班也会做。为了古怪的想法或是钱破坏这种历史珍宝真是可耻。


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