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CNN:两艘海监船驶往钓鱼岛,网友大谈琉球


译者:unknown     发布时间:2013-09-26     超过 0 位网友阅读

琉球效忠于明朝,他们也效忠于日本。所以谁是老板?

暂无

日本政府周一以20.5亿日元的价格从栗原家族手中购岛。中国外交部发布声明,重申自己对这些岛的主权,并警告东京日本政府对这一地区的占有是“非法和无效的”。

中国声称几百年前就已经对这些岛实施主权。而日本说直到1885年仍未发现中国对此的控制,所以到1895年这些岛就被视作日本领土。
这些岛屿于二战后被美国管理,但1972年,华盛顿将它们当做冲绳的一部分还给日本。
 



Junhsu
The question why USA handed over these islands to Japan after the 2nd war ?  These islands were taken from China by Japan during 2nd war.

问题在于,为什么美国在二战后将这些岛屿给了日本?这些岛屿是日本在二战中从中国那里夺取的。



crimsonbama
Anything that was taken over by Japan was supposed to be returned to China, whichever gov't or administration that was in charge in China at the time.  That's why you have Taiwan today as well as Hong Kong instead of another prefecture of Japan.
These islands were so desolate and minute, that nobody paid particular attention to them other than US.  There's a reason why those islands were given to Japan, its to extend the encirclement of China.  Simply put, US trusted Japan much more over the Nationalist in Taiwan because there was a good chance ROC will not survive an invasion Normandy style by the commies to Taiwan.  If the Korean war did not happen, there would be no Taiwan today.

So who's fault it is, no one's since it was a time of chaos. But legitimately, these islands probably belonged to Taiwan since it was the nationalist that was in charge when Japan surrendered. And only a couple of years later that the commies took over.  SO at the time of when these islands should've been returned to China (along with everything else Japan took since 1895), was to the Nationalist Gov't, which is the Republic of China - meaning today's Taiwan.  Even by proximity standard, like many who believes the closest owns, although I don't, these islands were closest to Taiwan.  SO either way, Taiwan should own.

ITs' really quite simple.  The only problem with this is Taiwan is so weak that no one gives a damn.  That's why no matter how loudly they protested, almost all Taiwanese are protesting at this point, and President Ma of Taiwan had recalled his ambassador to Japan,  unfortunately no one cares.

Like I said over and over.  The Biggest gun rules.  Just watch, in a few days, Japan will either rescind the purchase or be in one of the coldest cold war with China and possibly Taiwan and S. Korea (over Dokdo).  The Japanese politicians are not stupid, they had to have known that all Chinese will not accept this type of arrangement.  IN fact, all Chinese, Taiwanese, oversea Chinese, Taiwanese, Hkers...etc. will not accept it.  ITs a matter of Pride and probably justice for them.  From what I know, and the people I've dealt with in business including many gov't officials in China, this is going to be bad.  For the past month, Japanese brands and products in China had taken a steep plunge. As in jump of the cliff type of plunge.  Especially car manufacturers and electronics.  If this keeps on going, Japan will not survive in China.  And the Koreans and US manufacturers will take over.  Why do you think Ford wanted its own brand to partner with Changan Auto instead of coupling with Mazda along with Changan in China.  They probably smelled this mess too.

For an export oriented nation with scarce resources like Japan, its freaking suicidal.  They just about killed off the biggest consumer market for the foreseeable future. I really don't know why they would start crap at this point in time.  Election is not worth getting your country into a depression.

任何被日本夺取的领土都应归还中国,不管中国是哪个政党统治。这就是为什么你们有台湾和香港,而不是日本的某个县。

这些岛荒凉而狭小,没人对它比美国更投入了有特别的注意。为什么将岛屿给日本的原因是,要扩大对中国的包围圈。简单地说,美国信任日本,远胜于在台湾的国民党。因为这是一个很好的机会,ROC难以用诺曼底的方式逃脱gc主义的侵略。如果朝鲜战争没发生,就没台湾了。

所以,谁的错?没人,因为那是一个混乱的时代。但从法律上说,这些岛屿应该是台湾的,因为日本投降的时候是国民党政府。两年后共XX才占领全国。所以钓鱼岛应当被还给国民政府—中华民国,也就是现在的台湾。即使像普通人认为的那样接近占有——虽然我不这样认为——台湾也更接近。所以不管怎么说,台湾应该有这些岛。

问题很简单。唯一的难题在于台湾太弱小了,没人鸟他。尽管他们总是大声抗议,几乎所有台湾人在这一点都抗议,而且马总统还召回了驻日本大使,可没人理。

就如我说了很多次,大炮原则。看看,几天后,日本要么取消购买,要么陷入一场最冷的冷战,与中国,很可能还包括台湾和韩国(独岛问题)。

日本政治家不笨,他们知道所有中国人都不会接受这种解决方式。事实上,所有中国人,台湾人,海外华人,香港人……都不会同意。对他们来说,这是骄傲以及正义。据我所知——我和许多包括中国政府官员在内的人做生意——这事情很糟。过去的一个月里,日本品牌和制造在中国大幅下滑,就像从悬崖上跳下来一样。特别是汽车制造和电子产品。如果继续下去,日本仔中国不会生存下去。韩国和美国的汽车会取而代之。为什么你认为福特希望与长安汽车合资,而不是马自达与长安合资。他们可能嗅出些什么了。



crimsonbama
KaiEr, my Chinese is limited to Ni Hao and a stupid smile follow by hand shakes.  Don't know what you wrote so I can't comment.
From what I know the Ryuku Kingdoms (Okinawa) were tributary states of China. Meaning they subjugate themselves to China and recognize China as their leader at that time.  I've been to Okinawa, many of their structures, temple and palace are all Chinese.  Even today, many of their local so called Okinawan consider themselves pro-chinese than pro-Japanese and many of them trace back generations as Ethnic Han.
The disputed islands were part of the tributary system and since China was on top much like how the Roman Empire was run, these states also belonged to China.  If they don't, that means they have declared independent and that would mean war.  And since they did not declare independence. hese islands were legitimately owned as subjects of China.
So you just provided the facts that the disputed islands do belong to China since Ryukyu Kingdom was a subject of the Ming and Qing.

KaiEr, 我的中文很差,只会说你好以及握手后的傻笑。不知道你写的什么。

我知道的是琉球王国(冲绳)以前是中国的朝贡国。意味着那时他们臣服于中国,并认中国做老大。我去过冲绳,他们的许多建筑、寺庙和宫殿全是中国式的。即使今天,许多被称作冲绳人的土著,也认为自己亲中国,而不是亲日本。而且他们上溯许多代都是汉族。
所以你提供了事实,争议岛屿属于中国,因为琉球王国是明清属国。



beilaowai
No they weren't. You need to read a bit before commenting. At best they were taken over following the first Sino-Japanese War in 1895.  The islands have been administered by Japan since then except for the years following WWII when they were under U.S. administration. If it were as simple and clear as you suggest there would be no dispute.

错。你应该看多点儿留言。他们是在1895年中日战争后被占领的。这些岛屿被日本管理直到二战后被美国管理。如果像你说的这么简单,就没有争议了。



Indie12
@Crimisonbama
Sorry, but what you'd call "overseas chinese" and I'm not with China on this one. Neither are my family members and friends, and they are chinese as well. The fact is simple: Japan has administered the islands since 1895; China and Taiwan only laid claims to them in the 70s after they were found to have potential oil and resouces. it is also absurb for China to lay claim on regional seas usiing dated maps and history that do not relate to the modern world. Disregarding the protest from countries like Philippines and Vietnam, China unilaterally set up a new municipal on the islands they know call Sansha in the Spratlys, which is geographically closer to Vietnam and Philippines than China. I don't see why they find that legitimate while Japan buying Japanese administered islands from Japanese owners not--just because China says so.
Don't fet the false impression that all Chinese around the world are firmly behind china.

对Crimisonbama说:
对不起,你说海外华人。我并不和中国站在一边。我的家人好朋友也是,他们都是华人。事实很简单。日本从1895年开始管理这些岛屿;中国和日本只是在1970年代发现潜在的石油矿产之后才宣布主权。而且中国海使用了过期地图和历史,这些跟现代世界毫无关系。不顾越南和菲律宾的抗议,中国单方面在南沙群岛设立了三沙市,这一地区明明离越南和菲律宾更近。我没发现日本政府从日本岛主手中购买岛屿不合法的原因——仅仅因为中国这样说。所以,不要有全世界华人都站在中国背后的错觉。



blublu
crimsonbama Yes, the Ryukyu kingdom was indeed once a tributary state to the Ming Dynasty, but it was invaded by Japan and the kingdom abolished during the Meiji era. Thus it being incorporated as part of Okinawa. Did China help Ryukyu during the invasion? No, so the Ming Dynasty at that point basically lost the legitimacy over Ryukyu eventhough Ryukyu is still paying tributaries to China.
And i have no idea how the hell you get the impressions that Okinawans are pro-Chinese. There are indeed a certain level of hatred towards "mainland Japanese" due to their treatment during WW2 and current policies, but i've never heard any Okinawans considered themselves to be pro-Chinese.

Crimsonbama,是的,琉球王国是明朝的属国,但是在明治时期被日本侵略了。成为了冲绳的一部分。中国帮助琉球抵抗侵略了嘛?没有。所以明朝当时丧失了对琉球的合法权,尽管琉球进贡给中国。
我不知道你怎么会有冲绳县民亲华的印象。他们当然讨厌“内地日本人”,因为二战中和现在的政策。但是我从没听说冲绳县民认为自己亲华。



crimsonbama
And KaiER, to your question on whether Ryukan are Chinese.  Yes, to a degree, they should be.  And Ryukyu Islands should be independent.  They were forced to be subjugated to Japan by gunboat policy and should be "returned" to normalcy being an independent state.  And since Ryukyu Kingdom had aligned itself historically with China.  And if they don't have a place to be returned to, why not China?  Meaning ROC since the surrender of Japan was to the ROC.
So to answer your question.  Yes.  Ryukyu Islands should be a province of Taiwan.  Ryukyu was renamed by Japan as Okinawa which in itself had a insulting and racist tone to it and was given by US to Japan so we can keep our military base.  I have no problem with it since its in the national interest of US.  But if you ask whether who has legitimacy, Taiwan does.

KaiEr,告诉你为什么琉球人是中国人。是的,某种程度上说,他们是中国人。但琉球群岛应该独立。他们因大炮巨舰政策而臣服于日本,所以应当“恢复”正常的独立国家。因为琉球王国与中国历史的紧密联系,如果他们没有回归的地方,为什么不回归中国?意味着中华民国接受了日本投降,所以应该回归中华民国。

所以回答你这个问题。是的,琉球群岛应该是台湾的一个省。琉球被日本更名为冲绳,这是罕有侮辱和种族主义的语气的名字。它被美国给予日本,以便保持我们的军事设施。美国的国家利益上,我们有问题。但你说法理上讲谁应拥有琉球,我认为是台湾。



AKLightning
US has far-sight, well done, It's a bomb between Japan and China,there won't be EastAsia union  , I wish US should have set a bomb between German and France, then the Eurounion   will break up and no ability to challenge US.

美国有远见。干得好。这是在中日之间放下的炸弹。所以东亚不会有联盟。我希望美国应该在德国和法国之间也安放炸弹,那样欧盟就会分裂,没有能力挑战美国了。



crimsonbama
C'mon Daim, why you gotta play the race card?
Yes, we controlled Japan at the time and Mac was a God getting tails every night in Japan.  But I'm talking about in the 70s when the islands were supposed to be returned to the rightful owners.  Mao was still the guy at the time and if it wasn't for the fallout with the Soviet, things would've been much different.
Its truth that we didn't like or trust the Japanese for a very long time.  A lot of us still don't because they are the most superficial people on earth.  But the trust is a lot more than the Nationalist.  Racism was an ugly chapter in our history and many Japanese Americans along with many other minorities were mistreated.  We're not proud of that and we have learned from that.  Being Japanese American is the same as any American these days so let's not go there.  My family had six generations in the South in Alabama before moving from the North.  I know what racism is.  My family and I had seen it all.  We recognize the ignorance and shameful past.  We are critical of it and we learn from it.  We teach our young and next generations to recognize the ugliness and shamefulness and not make the same mistakes from the past.  So let's not go there.

拜托了Daim,为什么你喜欢打种族牌?

是啊,我们控制了日本,麦克阿瑟在日本是太上皇。但我说的是70年代岛屿应该还给的正确的主人。毛泽东当时还在,如果不是苏联解体,事情会大大不同。

事实是,我们确实很长一段时期内不喜欢、不信任日本。我们之中许多人仍然这样,因为他们是地球上最肤浅的人。但,仍比信任国民党多一点。我国历史上最丑陋的一章就是种族主义,许多日裔美国人和其他少数族群都没错误对待了。我为并不为此自豪,而且应从中汲取教训。日裔美国人现在也是美国人。我的家庭六代以前在阿拉巴马州南部,后来才移居北方。我知道种族主义是什么。我的家族和我都见识过。我们认识到了无知和羞耻的过去。我们谴责它,并从中学到教训。我们教育下一代认识到其中的丑陋和羞耻,以防再次犯过去的错。所以别说了。



Lacompacida
While Ryukyu was paying homage to Ming Dynasty, they were also paying homage to Japan at the same time.  So who was the boss ?

琉球效忠于明朝,他们也效忠于日本。所以谁是老板?



Lacompacida
You are quite wrong.  These islands were taken by Japan when they conquered Ryukyu in the 1800's, even before Taiwan was taken, and therefore not part of the Cairo protocol.

你错了,这些岛是19世纪日本占领琉球后窃取的。比窃取台湾还早。所以他不在开罗宣言中。



1Courageous
These islands were Japanese back in 1895, the only time in the last 100 years they weren't was when the US had them. Might want to look beyond the Chinese cooked history books for this one

这些岛屿在1895年之后被日本占据,过去一百年内他们并不全是这样,因为美国占领了一段时间。应该把目光从中国人炮制的历史书中移开。



JingleJinx
blublu. Sorry, Meiji era is in late Qing dynasty, not Ming. Ming exsited more than 200 years earlier than Meiji era. And you are right Ryukyu was a tributary of China(both Ming and Qing). China(Qing)  lost Ryukyu kingdom together with Taiwan, and Korea to japan(Meiji) during the first Sino-japanese war in 1895. Before the war Ryukyu was already invaded by japan same as Korea, China refused to sign the agreement with japan till China lost the war. After the WWII, as in Cairo Declaration, Korea got independent, Taiwan is returned to China and Ryukyu was administrated by USA. I think it's time for Ryukyu to be independent or returned to China.

Blublu,对不起,明治时期在晚清,不是明朝。明朝在明治时期前200年。你关于琉球是中国属国(包括明清)的说法是对的。清朝同时丢失了琉球和台湾。



daimlerXXX
@Crimsonbama: no, the usa did it not because they trusted the Japanese , but because the usa was CONTROLLING Japan at that time. At that time the white Americans were still calling the Japanese by all kind of names, and in the usa, the Japanese have to sit in the middle of the bus or at the back of the bus with the blacks, but not in front with the whites.
对Crimsonbama说:

不对,美国这么做的原因不是信任日本,而是因为控制了日本。当时美国白人仍然歧视日本人。在美国,日本人必须坐在公交车的中间,车后部是黑人,而且不能和前面的白人坐在一起。



markkingrule
some trouble makers in asia, 
1, japan:   japan has dispute with all its neibouring countries  from
south korea, north korea, china, russia, phillipine, taiwan,
2, vietnam: vietnam has dispute with all its neibouring countries from china,
lao, combodia, phillipine, Malaysia,
3, south korea:  south korea has dispute with all its
neibours:  japan, north korea, russia, china
4, india:  india has dispute with all its neighbors:
parkistan,  china, bagradish , srilanka, burma ,skimm, nipore
4, phillipine: phillipine has dispute with all its neibours:   china,
vietnam, malasia, taiwan
by comparsion:  china has 31 neibouring countries:  only five of them
have dispute with china,   they are  japan, vietnam, india,
south korea, Philippine,   and  all these five are dogs of
america

一些亚洲麻烦制造者

1.  日本:日本和所有邻国有领土争议,包括韩国,朝鲜,中国,俄罗斯,菲律宾,台湾

2.  越南:越南和所有邻国有领土争议,包括中国,老挝,柬埔寨,菲律宾,马来西亚

3.  韩国:韩国和所有邻国有领土争议,包括日本,朝鲜,俄罗斯,中国

4.  印度:印度和所有邻国有领土争议,包括巴基斯坦,中国,孟加拉,斯里兰卡,缅甸,锡金,尼泊尔

5.  菲律宾:菲律宾和所有邻国有领土争议,包括中国,越南,马来西亚,台湾。

作为对比:中国有31个邻国,只有五个有领土争议,他们是日本,越南,印度,韩国,菲律宾。而且这五个都是美国的狗。



cxcpro1
very well said. USA is the enemy of the world, where it goes there's war. F***K!

说得好。美国是世界的敌人。到哪儿那儿就有战争。操!



Indie12
Every country has territorial disputes with neighbours at some stage. The difference is how these countries seek to handle these disputes. Of the list of countries you mentioned, I can only think of one that has repeatedly strong-armed her way into getting these disputes settled on her terms. And that's China.

某种程度说,每个国家都和邻国有领土争议。区别是,怎么解决争议。名单上的国家,只有一个不断以强迫的方式解决争端,以自己的主张。这就是中国。



1Courageous
Are you kidding? Tajikistan, Pakistan, Mongolia, India, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines, and Bhutan all have territory disputes with China. Might want to pull your head out of that Chinese history book

开什么玩笑?塔吉克斯坦,巴基斯坦,蒙古,印度,韩国,日本,越南,马来西亚,菲律宾,不丹都和中国有领土争议。把你的脑袋从中国历史书中抽出来!



CA6
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
China has been involved in a number of international territorial disputes, mostly resulting from the legacy of unequal treaties imposed on China during the historical period of New Imperialism.
Since the 1990s, China has been entering negotiations to resolve its
disputed land borders, usually by offering concessions and accepting
less than half of the disputed territory with each party. China's only
remaining land border disputes are a disputed border with India and an undefined border with Bhutan.
China is additionally involved in more minor multilateral disputes over
the ownership of several small islands in the East and South China
Seas.

维基百科:

中国解决了一系列国际领土争端,许多是由于历史上帝国主义强加给中国的不平等条约造成的。从20世纪90年代开始,中国开始了一系列谈判来解决陆上边界问题,通常是让步并各方接受一半的争议领土。中国仅存的陆上边界争议,即与印度的争议。以及和不丹还有一段未定国界。

中国另外在东海和南海的小岛上被卷入了一些小型的多边争议。



gadino
you commun1st r3tards love making up your own facts. there is ABSOLUTELY NO dispute between japan and philippines

你们共产白痴总是自造事实。日本和菲律宾之间没有争议!



Sanmiah
vhortex Ur usage of neighbor is really vague. Tibetans lived there since ancient time no matter whether it was China's. Taiwan was taken over by Chinese during Qing dynasty and has been ruled by Chinese ethnicity since then. China's borderline changed in every dynasty, and the minorities migrated all the time. Very little of the Chinese territory now had always been a part of China for some thousands years. So what do u exactly mean by "neighbors"?

vhortex,你邻国这个词用的很模糊。xz人自古以来都住在那里,无论是否属于中国。台湾在清朝时被中国占据,从此被中国人统治到现在。中国的边界每朝每代都在变化,少数民族也在变化。中国的领土很少在几千年来都是中国的一部分。所以你说的“邻国”是什么意思?



jicktick
cool stroy bro, if you could spell the name of the nations correctly (if at all skimm was a nation), you would have an iota more credibility.

好故事。如果你能把这些国家名字拼写对的话(如果锡金是个国家)(原文拼写成了skimm,应该是skkimm)。你会更可信。



Lacompacida
PRC has territorial disputes with Japan, South Korea, North Korea, Russia, India, Pakistan, Burma, Taiwan, Philipinnes, Indonesia, Malaysia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Who is the trouble maker again ?  For sure, CCP was generous enough to give away millions of square miles of their sacred sovereign territories to Vietnam, India, Russia, Burma to settle some of these.  Why not follow these examples and give away more sacred Chinese territories ?

PRC和日本,韩国,朝鲜,俄罗斯,印度,巴基斯坦,缅甸,台湾,菲律宾,印度尼西亚,马来西亚,哈萨克斯坦,吉尔吉斯斯坦,阿富汗和巴基斯坦都有领土争议。

现在谁是麻烦制造者?当然,TG赠送了几百万平方英里的神圣土地给越南、印度、俄罗斯、缅甸来解决问题。为什么不按照这些例子,继续赠与更多神圣的中国土地呢?



Vijay
who are you dog of? whos your master Amigo

你是谁家的狗啊?谁是你的主人朋友?



wereport
Wow, nice imagination. Here's another list. Some peace makers in Asia.
1. Pakistan: To avoid confrontation with India over disputed land, Pakistan gifts the land to China.
2. China: Gratefully accepts this land.
One country has no governance and the other has only governance.

哇,好想象力。这儿还有更多的亚洲和平制造者:

1.       巴基斯坦,为了逃避和印度的直接对抗,巴基斯坦将争议领土当做礼物送给中国。

2.       中国:感激地接受了土地。

一个国家没有管辖,而另一个只有管辖。



V0ice
China, the worlds most evil country
My reasons why China is evil:
- It has amongst the worst cases of human rights abuses in the world
- Its citizens are kept in a state of political fear with political prison camps for anyone who may have an opposing view to the Chinese government
- Its population is HEAVILY censored
- We all know about Tibet , Uyghur people, and Tiananmen Square.

中国是世界上最邪恶的国家:
-它是世界上侵犯人权最恶劣的国家之一
-它的公民一直处于对政治犯集中营的恐惧中,任何人持有反对政府的观点都会被关进去。
-它的人民都被严密监视
-我们都知道xz,维吾尔人民还有天安门广场



CelestialOne
If China is the world's most evil country, then why are they not bombing the brown people ?  We all know which country is busy bombing the brown people and it is not the East Asians.

如果中国是世界上最邪恶的国家,那为什么他没有轰炸棕种人?(译注:不明白这指谁)我们都知道哪个国家在忙于轰炸棕种人,反正不是东亚人干的



Sanmiah
You probably don't know there is such a country who stirred up majority of messes in the world and would arrogantly call herself a "human rights protector".

你可能不知道有这么个国家煽动世界上大部分的骚乱,还能傲慢的称呼自己是“人权捍卫者”



leezang
That's total nonsense!

一派胡言!



Lacompacida
PRC is not bombing the brown people because CCP has to keep all the bombs for Chinese.

PRC没有在轰炸棕种人,因为他们要把炸弹都留给中国人。



wereport
Brown people? Maybe because slit eyes cannot see properly.

棕种人?大概因为细眼睛看不准吧



another2guy
For sure, you are thoroughly brain washed by the greatest democracy and human right protector on earth...sigh

可以确定,你被世上最伟大的民主国家和人权捍卫者彻底洗脑了...哎



daimlerXXX
It is all the fault of Obama's failed Asia pivot policy. For decades there were no rumble. All the countries claiming the disputed islands just lay low and kept things vague. Suddenly Obama did his Asia pivot thingy, and the Japanese and Filipinos suddenly got the message that USA will come to their aid and started sending gunships to claim the islands. China had no choice but to respond with gunships too. It will be better for all the countries to pull back, and either let things remain vague or else to settle it in an international court with neutral judges.

都是奥巴马东亚支点政策失败的错。几十年了那儿都没有摩擦。所有国家宣称争议岛屿的主权,但都低调并让其模糊化。突然奥巴马开始了亚洲支点什么的,日本人和菲律宾人突然得到了美国要帮助他们的消息,于是开始向那儿派军舰宣布主权。中国没有别的选择,只好报以军舰的回应。对于所有国家来说,后退一步是最好的,无论让它保持模糊还是在国际法庭上以中立的标准解决。



Aaron A
China wanted to take it to international court but Japan vehementaly refused

?        中国希望上国际法庭解决,但日本粗暴拒绝了。



Falconer375
Not sure what you are smoking over there but maybe you should moderate it a bit. The Chinese are on the rise as such they are rapidly acquiring influence in the world be it economic, political or military.... Both sides claim historic ownership of the islands and China is merely posturing in order to put their perspective out there. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the intent of the US to in relatively small ways to relocate some of its influence including military to the Pacific region, other than to say "don't forget this is our backyard too".

不确定你在那边吸烟(放烟雾弹?),但你应该温和点。随着中国人的经济、政治、军事正在崛起,他们会拥有更大的影响。双方都宣称拥有群岛的历史主权。中国仅仅是故作姿态,以便于表现他们的观点。对于美国的意图来说,做一点相对小的调整影响,包括太平洋地区的军事调整,都没什么用处,除非说“别忘了这也是我们的后院”。



Dudley_DoRight
This is a one-sided view.
China was not "laying low". They were clearly bullying.
You know that, but you chose to ignore it.
Nobody needs anyone "coming to their aid" otherwise.
Do you truly think China was laying low? Do you truly think China is fair with these other countries?
Really?

这是片面的观点。
中国没有“放低姿态”,他们一直在明显欺凌弱小。
你明知这些,却选择无视。
没人需要任何人来帮助他们。你真的认为中国放低姿态?你真的认为中国对待其他国家很公平?
真的?



Lacompacida
In fact, Japan wants to take it to ICJ according to the Law of the Seas, but PRC refused.  Japan can do it unilaterally, but will be difficult to enforce the judgement.  PRC just don't see how it can win in court.  China had never had effective administration over the islands for the last 4000 years.  No Chinese government office was ever established.  No Chinese land titles.  No Chinese officials has ever set foot on the islands in the last 4000 years.  No Chinese artifacts on the island.
During the last landing of Hong Kong protesters, Japan had exercised effective administration through arresting and removal of these protesters.  That's in additional to the presence of graves of Japanese people, old Japanese fish processing plant, old Japanese domicile sites, etc. etc. etc.

事实上,日本希望将其交予国际法庭根据海洋法判决。但中国拒绝了。日本可以单方面这么做,但是难以强制执行。中国只是不知道该如何在法庭上胜诉。至少4000年以来中国都没有对这些岛屿进行有效管辖。没有中国政府建制过。没有中国领土所有权。没有中国官员登上过。在过去4000年。没有中国工厂在上面。

在最后一次香港抗议者登岛后,日本通过逮捕并驱逐抗议者实施了实际管辖权。还有日本人的坟墓,旧的日本渔业工厂,旧的日本人住所。等等等等。



Karim
Give the disputed islands to the international community, and divided the proceeds among everyone other than Japan and China.
It'll show people not to threaten an entire war over such a little thing.

把争议岛屿给国际社会,把收益分给除中日之外的每个人。
这会体现出人们不会在这种小事上被整个战争吓倒。



Brau Buarque Cavalcanti
yes ! de bu chang shi

是的。得不偿失。(汉语拼音)



Lacompacida
You are about 4 decades behind time.   The dispute regarding Senkaku Islands started in the 1970's, when Obama wasn't even thinking about running for prez. (You can't be prez when you are in grade school.)

已经过去40年了。钓鱼岛的争议始于70年代,那会儿奥巴马还没考虑当总统(在上小学呢)。



1Courageous
Aaron: like China refused on the Philippine shoals?

Aaron:就像中国在菲律宾的沙洲上拒绝?(黄岩岛的事)

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