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加拿大网友问:为啥中国几乎与每个邻国都有边界争议?


译者:unknown     发布时间:2017-03-28     超过 0 位网友阅读

中国的军事战略严格来说不是简单粗暴去谋求局部更好的情况,而是努力去避免全局更差的态势

原文地址:https://www.quora.com


Why does China have border disputes with almost every neighbouring country?

为什么中国几乎与每个邻国都存在边界争议?

为啥中国几乎与每个邻国都有边界争议





Jay Liu I've been told I'm Chinese...
Written Oct 5 2015
The assertion here is obxtively false.
China has no current border dispute with the majority of its neighbors.
Countries that share a land or sea border with China:
Russia
North Korea
Japan
S.Korea
Philippines
Vietnam
Laos
Myanmar
Bhutan
India
Nepal
Pakistan
Afghanistan
Tajikistan
Kyrgyzstan
Mongolia
Kazakhstan
The ones in bold are those countries with which China has an active border dispute with all of which are maritime except India.
That's 4/17 countries.  Last time I checked that's not enough to qualify as "almost every neighboring country".

本文的主张明显是错误的,中国当前与他的大部分邻国并没有边境争端。

与中国有土地边界和海洋边界的国家:

俄罗斯,北朝鲜,日本,南韩,菲律宾,越南,老挝,缅甸,不丹,印度,尼泊尔,巴基斯坦,阿富汗,塔吉克斯坦,吉尔吉斯斯坦,蒙古,哈萨克斯坦, 被加粗标识的国家都是当前与中国有边界争端的,而除了印度以外都是领海争端。

十七个国家中的四个,据我所知这可称不上“几乎每一个邻国”。



Michael Chan lived in China
Written Oct 2 2015
To be fair nearly every nation in Asia has some border disputes with other nations. Even South America has nations with border disputes with each other. Even Europe if you consider Greece and Turkey have border disputes too. I am unclear of Africa.
My point is border disputes are pretty much part and parcel of any nation's desire to assert its rights before its electorate (or citizenry in the case of China a nation without democratic elections). Land integrity is very important especially to people with strong nationalistic tendencies.
When you get a nation as large as China with as many bordering nations you get more border disputes. When you get a nation with such a huge population all of whom have a tendency to bay for blood quickly the ruling party would rather they bay for foreign blood rather than their own.
This is the world we live in unfortunately.

公平的讲亚洲的每个国家之间都有些边界争端。即便南美洲都有些国家相互间有边界争端。甚至如果算上希腊和土耳其的边界争端的话欧洲都有此类问题。我不太清楚非洲的情况。

我的观点是边界争端是所有国家在他的选民(或市民,考虑到中国是一个没有民主选举的国家)面前用于维护自身权益的组成部分。领土完整对于那些有着强烈民族主义倾向的人来说极为重要。

当你统治一个像中国一样巨大的国家时,你有这越多的邻国,就意味你有越多的边境争端。当你统治着如此巨大的人口都渴求鲜血时,执政党会更倾向于放外国人的血而不是他们自己的。

很不幸这就是我们身处的世界。



Alfred W Croucher has lived and worked in China since 1978. is post-graduate thesis was on GPCR.
upxed Oct 3 2015
Since the Chinese empire began to weaken in the 17th century neighbors and foreign invaders have been picking off pieces of China for themselves and the Chinese people just had to sit helplessly and watch. It is what they refer to as their humiliation. 

由于中华帝国在17世纪之初衰败,她的邻国和外国侵略者都逐渐把中国当成了案板上的肉,而中国人民只能无奈地坐看这一切发生。这就是他们所说的巨大耻辱。

You might understand if you were Jewish and been harassed for centuries with pogroms holocausts and the like. Until Israel was founded Jews were taught to do nothing to attract attention and return aggression with meekness lest others suffer. 

如果你是同时也被骚扰了几个世纪并经历了与之类似的惨无人道的屠杀的犹太人,你或许也能理解这种感受。在以色列成立之前,犹太人都一直在被教导不要产生任何吸引其他人注意的行为以及学会用温柔的姿态回应他人的冒犯,以免遭受无妄之灾。

Now the Jews have a nation with borders and a a highly trained disciplined and motivated army with advanced materiel they don't have to be meek any longer. They don't have to "swallow" the bitterness of humiliation as the Chinese put it. So they don't. And won't. And neither will China.

现在犹太人有了一个属于他们的,有明确边界的国家和一支训练有素的与士气高涨的军队以及先进的武器,他们不必再在受到侵犯时用温柔的姿态来回应。他们不必再像之前的中国人那样被迫承受“吞咽”这份屈辱的痛苦。他们再也不会了。同样的,中国也不会再这样了。



Baiyan Zhao lived in China
Written Oct 2 2015
I certainly don't think anyone is capable of shaming China into yielding by accusing it of being greedy and aggressive. 

Baiyan Zhao,住在中国
写于2015年10月2日
我认为中国不会因为别人指责自己贪婪和好斗就作出让步。

A lot of Asian countries have border disputes with their neighbors. Take for instance Japan. It has unsettled disputes with ALL its neighbors too. China just happens to share borderline with more neighors for a longer period of time than others. It comes with its size and history.  

许多亚洲国家都和自己的邻国发生过边境争端。例如,日本。日本也没有从没解决过与所有邻国的争端问题。碰巧长时间以来,中国比其他国家和更多的周边邻国共享边界。这是由中国的领土面积和历史决定的。

If there is a way to settle the disputes good. If not China will just manage it and live with them.

如果大家能想出一种解决争端的方法,那还不错。如果没有,中国就继续打理好自己国家和继续与他们为邻。



Fred Thompson An entrepreneur chasing his dream 一个追逐梦想的企业家
Written Oct 3 2015
Why do we had so many border disputes with Canada and Mexico?

为啥我们与加拿大和墨西哥曾有如此多的边界争议?

Heck I remember being a kid and my uncle who was an analyst for S.America was really concerned that Brazil and Argentina would go to war since both countries had up until the 1980's plans to develop nuclear weapons.

我记得当我还是小孩时,我叔叔,一个分析南美(?)的分析师,非常担心巴西和阿根廷会打仗,因为直到1980年代,双方都计划发展核武器。

Most European wars were directly due to border disputes or because of problems related to territory and resources which is related to that.

大多数欧洲战争都是由于边界争议或与领土资源相关(也与边界争议有关)的问题直接导致的。

At the same time China much like Russia has a long history of invasions by foreigners that resulted in catatrophic loss of life and wealth for the country the Japanese occupation being just the last of many.

与此同时,中国就如同俄罗斯,有很长的被外国人侵略(这导致了灾难性的生命财产的损失)的历史,日本的占领只是很多个里面的最后一个。



Michael Moy works at Navy Federal Credit unx
upxed Feb 16 2016
Henry Kissinger wrote a good book about Chinese strategy "On China". In it he illustrates the differences between Western (American) and Chinese foreign affairs by comparing the two games of Wei Qi (Go) and Chess. In Chess the obxtive is to kill the King.  In Go the the obxtive is to surround your opponent without getting surrounded.  The way that these games are played offer insight on the geopolitical strategy employed by each country/civilization. China is known to Chinese as "Middle Kingdom" which means relative to the rest of the world China is the center.  When a stone is surrounded in Go it is captured.  

Henry Kissinger写了一本关于中国战略的好书《论中国》。在书中他通过比较围棋和国际象棋来说明西方(美国)和中国外交事务上的差异。在国际象棋中,目标是杀掉国王。而在围棋中,目标是包围你的对手而非被包围。这些游戏的规则对每个国际或文明采用的地缘政治战略提供了见解。”中国“在中文里的意思是”中央王国“,即中国相对于世界其他地区是中心。在围棋中,当一个石头(棋子)被包围时就代表其被捉住了。

For example:

举个例子:

Border disputes will inevitably arise when playing this game.

在玩这个游戏时,边界争端将不可避免的出现。

Chinese military strategy is not really about aggression but more so about preventing/avoiding the above situation. 

中国的军事战略严格来说不是简单粗暴去谋求局部更好的情况,而是努力去避免全局更差的态势。(这一句偏意译) 

US military strategy is equally aggressive however we look for checkmate situations (e.g. Desert Storm I & II - Kill the King).  In the short term this works but in the long term there can be problems  kill Saddam kill Bin Laden get ISIS.  

美国的军事战略是非常粗暴直接的,但这往往容易导致惨痛的损失(例如沙漠风暴I&II - 杀死国王的行动)。对于短期的军事行动来说,这个策略或许会有效,但在长期的军事斗争中,这会出问题的,比如杀死萨达姆,杀死本拉登,然后得到了ISIS。

On the other hand Chinese will bother their neighbors but not take them over.  If barbarians invade China they accept the barbarians and "surround" them with Chinese Culture so they assimilate (Yuan Dynasty).     

另一方面,虽然中国人会打扰他们的邻居,但不会接管他们。如果野蛮人入侵了中国,他们会选择接受野蛮人然后用中国文化“包围”他们,最终使他们同化(比如元朝)。   

There is a common saying something like "They can play checkers and we will play chess." however when understanding the actions of China we need to think about different games altogether.

虽然对此有一个常见的说法,比如“他们玩跳棋,我们下象棋。" (这句说法的原意应该是西方人觉得他们以外的其他人的策略和逻辑都更低级更简单,表达智商上的优越感)然而,当理解了中国的行动以后,我们就不得不需要连他们的玩法一起考虑进来了。



Xuan Su
Written Oct 2 2015
Japan has border disputes with every neighboring country.  With Russia over the northern islands with S. Korea over the Dokdo/Takashima island with China/Taiwan over Diaoyu/Senkaku.

日本跟每个周边国家都有领土纠纷。跟俄罗斯争北方四岛,跟韩国争独岛,跟中国争钓鱼岛。

Maybe you should hate their aggressive military attitude just to be fair.

或许你也该厌恶一下他们咄咄逼人的军事态度以示公平

Look the only reason China has border disputes is because we haven't taken aggressive military attitude to those disputes.  Otherwise they would have been settled one way or the other a long time ago.

看看,中国边界纠纷的唯一原因就是一直没有对这些纠纷采取军事侵略的态度,否则他们早就被这样或那样的方式给摆平了。



Richard Li Knows a thing or two about China
Written Oct 2 2015
From the way you asked the questions I say you like the culture and people for novelty not out of genuine interests. If you want to know about its culture and people read further on China and its history then you will understand what you claimed was just fabrication and misunderstanding fed to you by western media.

从你问问题的方式,我可以感觉到你说你喜欢文化和人只是出于一时的新奇而不是发自真正的兴趣。如果你真的想知道它的文化和人们,请加深对于中国及其历史的阅读深度,你到时候会明白你现在所表述的那些只是由西方媒体给你制造的误解罢了。 

For what its worth there's nothing wrong with having a strong military to protect your people's interests.

(强大的军队)这是物有所值的,有一支强大的军队去保护她的人民的利益本身并没有什么错。


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