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英美网民PK:阿桑奇在伦敦被捕,英国法官拒绝保释


British Judge Denies WikiLeaks Founder Assange Bail
译者:unknown     发布时间:2013-06-30     超过 0 位网友阅读

等着瞧好了,你会吃惊的 …阿桑奇在英国的支持者甚多。英国人可不会再像伊战时那样了,我们没那么容易被人牵着鼻子走。

原贴地址: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/12/07/lawyer-assange-surrender-police-uk/


British Judge Denies WikiLeaks Founder Assange Bail
Dec. 7: WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, back to camera, is driven into Westminster Magistrates Court in London after being arrested on a European Arrest Warrant.
LONDON -- A British judge sent Julian Assange to jail on Tuesday, denying bail to the WikiLeaks founder after Assange vowed to fight efforts to be extradited to Sweden in a sex-crimes investigation.
 
12 月 7 日,基于欧洲统一逮捕令,维基解密创始人朱利安·阿桑奇在伦敦被捕并被送去威斯敏斯特地区法院。伦敦——在阿桑奇拒绝被引渡回瑞典接受对于他性犯罪指控的调查之后,周二一名英国法官将阿桑奇关进监狱,并拒绝了他的保释要求。
 
Despite Assange's legal troubles, a WikiLeaks spokesman insisted the flow of secret U.S. diplomatic cables would not be affected. He also downplayed efforts to constrict the group's finances after both Visa and MasterCard cut off key funding methods Tuesday.
 
"This will not change our operation," spokesman Kristinn Hrafnsson told The Associated Press. As if to underline the point, WikiLeaks released a dozen new diplomatic cables, its first publication in more than 24 hours, including the details of a NATO defense plan for Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania that prompted an indignant response from the Russian envoy to the alliance.
 
尽管阿桑奇官司缠身,维基解密的发言人坚持对美国秘密外交电报的进一步曝光将不会受到影响。他同样对于 visa 与万事达卡截断其资金供应的手段嗤之以鼻。
 
“这将不会改变我们的运作方式”,维基解密发言人 Kristinn Hrafnsson 对媒体这样说,像是为了证实这一点,维基解密发布了一系列新的外交信件,包括北约在波兰,爱沙尼亚,拉脱维亚,立陶宛的防卫计划激怒了俄罗斯使者的诸多细节。
 
Assange turned himself in to Scotland Yard on Tuesday morning, and was sent to the City of Westminster Magistrates' Court in the early afternoon. He showed no reaction as Judge Howard Riddle denied him bail and sent him to jail until his next extradition hearing on Dec. 14.
 
U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, visiting with Afghan President Hamid Karzai and U.S. troops in Afghanistan, was pleased to hear that Assange had been arrested.
 
阿桑奇于周二早晨出现在苏格兰场(伦敦警察厅),然后在下午早些时候被送去威斯敏斯特地区法院。他对于 Howard Riddle 法官拒绝了他的保释并将其送到监狱一事未予回应, 12 月 14 日,将会召开有关他引渡事宜的听证会。
 
正在拜访阿富汗总统哈米德·卡尔扎伊及视察驻阿美军的美国国防部长罗伯特·盖茨,表示很高兴听到阿桑奇被逮捕的消息。    
 
Riddle asked the 39-year-old Australian whether he understood that he could agree to be extradited to Sweden. Assange, dressed in a navy blue suit, cleared his throat and said: "I understand that and I do not consent."
 
The judge said he had grounds to believe that the former computer hacker -- a self-described homeless refugee -- might not show up to his next hearing if he were granted bail.
 
当 Riddle 法官询问这位现年 39 岁的澳大利亚人他是否明白他可以选择被引渡回瑞典时,身穿蓝色西装的阿桑奇清清嗓子:“我明白,但我拒绝引渡。”
 
法官认为如果给予这个曾经的电脑黑客——且自称是无家可归的难民的家伙保释,那他下次庭审时将很可能不会出现。
 
Arguments during the hour-long hearing detailed the sex accusations against Assange, all of which he has denied.
 
Attorney Gemma Lindfield, acting on behalf of the Swedish authorities, outlined one allegation of rape, two allegations of molestation and one of unlawful coercion stemming from Assange's separate sexual encounters in August with two women in Sweden.
 
Lindfield said one woman accused Assange of pinning her down and refusing to use a condom on the night of Aug. 14 in Stockholm. That woman also accused of Assange of molesting her in a way "designed to violate her sexual integrity" several days later.
 
A second woman accused Assange of having sex with her without a condom while she was asleep at her Stockholm home.
 
Assange's lawyers have claimed the accusations stem from a "dispute over consensual but unprotected sex" and say the women only made the claims after finding out about each other's relationships with Assange. WikiLeaks lawyer Mark Stephens says the case has taken on political overtones -- a claim Swedish officials have rejected.
 
近一小时的听证会上,关于他涉嫌强奸罪细节的争辩一直在持续,阿桑奇否认了所有的指控。
 
据 Lindfield (阿桑奇律师)说, 一名女子指控阿桑奇按住了她并拒绝使用避孕套,据称事件发生在 8 月 14 日晚的斯德哥尔摩。该女子还指控阿桑奇在几天之后,用“旨在破坏她的性操守”的方式骚扰她。
 
第二名女子指控 阿桑奇 在她斯德哥尔摩的家中作客时 , 不带安全套和她发生性行为,而当时的她是睡着了的。
 
阿桑奇的律师认为这项指控来自于对“经双方同意但未采取保护措施的性行为”的争议,并且指出,那些女人是在发现和彼此和阿桑奇的关系后才进行指控的。维基解密的律师 Mark Stephens 指责这场官司带有太多政治黑幕,但瑞典官方否认了这一说法。
 
Legally, there is a good chance Assange will be heading to Sweden. Experts say European arrest warrants like the one issued by Sweden can be tough to beat, barring mental or physical incapacity. Even if the warrant were defeated on a technicality, Sweden could simply issue a new one.
 
Assange's Swedish lawyer Bjorn Hurtig said it was difficult to say how long the extradition process in Britain would take, but it could be anywhere from a week to two months.
 
It was not publicly known where Assange was being held, since British police never reveal that for privacy and security reasons. Some prisoners occasionally get Internet access, although only under close monitoring.
 
Meanwhile, Stephens said he would reapply for bail, noting that several prominent Britons -- including socialite Jemima Khan and filmmaker Ken Loach -- had each offered to pay $31,500 as surety so Assange could go free.
 
从法律上讲,阿桑奇很可能会被送回瑞典进行审判。专家指出,除非能证明因精神或身体状况等不可抗力外,欧洲统一逮捕令一向很难被打破,即使出现法律程序上的缺陷,瑞典也只需重发一张新的就可以。
 
阿桑奇的瑞典律师 Bjorn Hurtig 称,目前尚难以判断英国的引渡程序将会进行多久,从一周到两个月,都有可能。
 
阿桑奇的关押地点尚未公开,英国警方以涉及隐私与安全等理由拒绝披露。有些被关押者仍有机会接触网络,当然这些会在严格的监控之下进行。
 
同时, Stephens 说他将继续申请保释,许多杰出的英国人,包括 Jemima Khan 和 filmmaker Ken Loach ,也已提出愿支付 31,500 美元来保证阿桑奇的自由。
 
WikiLeaks, meanwhile, came under increasing financial pressure Tuesday. Collecting individual donations -- the mainstay of its operations -- became more difficult after credit card companies said they would refuse to process donations to the site.
 
Visa Inc. said it would "suspend Visa payment acceptance on WikiLeaks' website pending further investigation into the nature of its business and whether it contravenes Visa operating rules." MasterCard said it would suspend payments "until the situation is resolved."
 
PayPal Inc., a popular online payment service, has already cut its links to the website, while Swiss authorities closed Assange's new Swiss bank account on Monday, freezing tens of thousands of euros, according to his lawyers.
 
WikiLeaks is still soliciting donations through bank transfers to affiliates in Iceland and Germany, as well as by mail to an address at University of Melbourne in Australia.
 
与此同时,周二维基解密遭到了持续的经济压力。用于维系维基解密的资金主要来源于私人捐助,但因信用卡公司拒绝处理这些捐助,而使运转变得更为困难。
 
visa 公司声称“暂时冻结维基解密账户,以进一步调查该客户业务的实质是否违反了 visa 公司的规定”。万事达卡声称冻结账户直到“问题得以解决”。
 
据阿桑奇的律师称,以提供网上支付服务而流行的贝宝公司也已经掐断阿桑奇的账户链接,周一,瑞士官方授权瑞士银行关闭了阿桑奇新开的账户,冻结了数万欧元。
 
维基解密依然在募集捐款,通过银行转账到它在冰岛和德国的分支,同样也通过汇款方式寄去澳洲墨尔本大学的某一地址。
 
As WikiLeaks has come under legal, financial and technological attack, an online army of supporters has come to its aid, sending donations, fighting off computer attacks and setting up over 500 mirror sites around the world to make sure that the secret documents are published regardless of what happens to the organization.
 
Hrafnsson, the WikiLeaks spokesman, said the group had no plans yet to carry through on its threat to release the key to a heavily encrypted version of some of the most sensitive U.S. diplomatic cables -- an "insurance" file that has been distributed to supporters and news media in case of an emergency.
 
随着维基解密遭到来自司法、经济、和技术面的诸多打击,一个由网上支持者组成的队伍开始自发进行帮助,包括捐款,抵御网络黑客攻击以及在全球建立起 500 多个小小分支,以确保无论解密组织遭遇了什么,那些秘密文件仍将得到发布。
 
维基解密的发言人 Hrafnsson 声称,迄今为止,维基解密并无计划将解密威胁扩大至高度加密的某些最最敏感的美国外交文件——但一份作为在紧急情况下拿来“保命”的档案已被送达到支持者与媒体手中,以防可能遭遇的不测。
 
Beginning in July, WikiLeaks angered the U.S. government by releasing tens of thousands of secret U.S. military documents on the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Last week, it began a rolling release of what WikiLeaks says are a quarter-million cables from U.S. diplomatic posts around the world. The group provided those documents to five major newspapers, which have been working with WikiLeaks to edit the cables for publication, and has been sharing subsets of the cache with other publications in recent days.
 
The U.S. government has launched a criminal investigation, saying the group has jeopardized U.S. national security and diplomatic efforts around the world.
 
从今年七月开始,维基解密发布了美国在阿富汗战争和伊战中的大量军方秘密文件,这一行为激怒了美国。上周起,维基解密开始有规律的发布据称大约 25 万份美国在全球的外交文件,解密组织将这些文件发布于 5 大主要报刊上,并在近期与其他出版物进行共享。
 
美国政府已经开展了对其的犯罪调查,指控解密组织危害了美国的国家安全与外交努力。



john_m_at_yahoo15 hours ago
Hopefully the British will stand up to US bullying and Free Julian Assange.
92 people liked this. 92 人顶
 
真希望英国能扛得住来自美国的压力,释放朱利安·阿桑奇。



xilch 14 hours ago in reply to john_m_at_yahoo
I t's the Swiss you dope. And as far as Julian ASSange, find a prison cell somewhere in some third world hellhole and forget where he is.
25 people liked this.   25 人顶
 
该看瑞士吧,你这傻子。至于朱利安·狗屁奇,随便找第三世界哪个旮旯里的监狱关起来,从此忘掉他的存在吧。
 
【 25 人顶这条 = = 。膜拜米国的地理帝。。。们】



happytom2 hours ago in reply to xilch
well, actually it's Sweeden
1 person liked this. 1 人顶
 
(回楼上)这个。。好像不是瑞士,是瑞典。。



john_m_at_yahoo
14 hours ago in reply to xilch
Swiss??? Wow! You really need some geography lessons. It was Sweden who issued the warrant ! And they are being bullied by the US too.
46 people liked this. 46 人顶
 
瑞士???靠!你真得去补补地理课了。瑞典才是发出逮捕令的国家好不!当然瑞典也同样被美国胁迫就是了。



happytom
14 hours ago in reply to john_m_at_yahoo
Do you really believe it's a setup, or is it wishful thinking? Very hard to pull something like that off in a small, transparent, social democratic country like Sweden.
Sweden is not even a NATO member. In general, they don't give a rats tail about what the US wants (unlike my homeland, Norway)
8 people liked this. 8 人顶
 
(回复 1楼的 john_m_at_yahoo)你真相信这是栽赃?还是只是一厢情愿的猜测?能让像瑞典这样一个透明度高、又是民主社会的小国做出栽赃这种事,可不容易。
瑞典甚至都不是北约成员国。一般说来,他们才不鸟美国想要啥呢(可不像俺们国家挪威)
 
【敢情挪威人很清楚自家的勾当 ╮ (╯ _╰ )╭】



dwmessenger
11 hours ago in reply to xilch
I was thinking they need to extradite him to Afghanistan, where they will cut off his arms for using them inappropriately, or something. Surely of all the diplomatic documetation, he mentions something offensive about Karzai.
9 people liked this. 9 人顶
 
(回复 xilch )我看他们该把他引渡到阿富汗,当地人一准儿会因为他不正当地利用了阿富汗而卸掉他一条手臂。可以肯定的是,在所有那些解密的外交材料里,他提到过不少冒犯卡尔扎伊的话。



jersey911
10 hours ago in reply to xilch
prison cell is more appropriate for us leadership and us military personnel that rapesandkills underage girls in iraq, etc.
5 people liked this. 5 人顶
 
(回复 xilch )监狱什么的还是用来装美国领导人比较合适,以及那些在伊拉克奸杀幼女的美国大兵之类的。



rvdixie
14 hours ago in reply to john_m_at_yahoo
Another idiot who doesn't care how many innocent people are either killed or harmed. Regardless of your views how can you possibly justify harm coming to others. Do you think that anything this guy did will truly change the way the world operates?
You are not only an idiot, you are naive.
11 people liked this. 11 人顶
 
(指 1楼 john_m_at_yahoo)又来了一个不在乎有多少无辜的民众会被伤害或被杀害的傻子。
先不说你个人的好恶,你怎样才能替那些降临到他人身上的伤害找到借口呢?难道你认为凭这家伙(阿桑奇)做的那些事真能改变这个世界的运作方式?
 
很傻很天真。



saganx2
14 hours ago in reply to rvdixie
Well rvdixie..Seems you don't have anything of the revolutionary spirit of the founding fathers of the once greatest Nation on earth. The current situation in the west can only be described as this: A totalitarian regime, disguised as democracy. How can we seriously "bring peace and democracy" to other Nations, when we're not even living up to our own standards? 
If, by all means, you think Assange commited such a crime, then call for the LAW. But check out the comments here. They want him burned alive. Just like the witches in the dark ages. This is nothing more then a modern days witch hunt.
14 people liked this. 14 人顶
 
(回楼上) rvdixie…你身上已经半点儿没有革命的精神了——恰恰是凭着这种精神,才使我们的国父创立了这个地球上最伟大的国家。今天的白宫只能这么被诠释:一个披着民主外皮的极权政体。当连我们自个儿都不达标时,我们要怎么煞有介事地为其他国家“带去民主与和平”?
 
如果无论如何你都相信阿桑奇真的犯了(强奸)罪,那就依法办事就好了。可看看这儿的这些评论吧,他们恨不得把他绑上火刑柱活烤了,就像中世纪的欧洲对待巫者一样。这根本就是场现代版的“猎巫运动”。
 
【“猎巫运动”:欧洲基督教会从 14世纪开始迫害巫者,指控他们与撒旦立约,这种迫害后蔓延到美洲,发展为大规模屠杀,英国甚至在《 1735年巫术法案》里将这种屠杀合法化。至 17世纪末,共约 20万人被处死。也就是欧洲所谓的“黑暗时代”。后用“猎巫运动”来指代以莫须有罪名的政治迫害。】



jebwebs
10 hours ago in reply to saganx2
So Saganz2, if burning him alive is not up for consideration, how about we just bury him. It'd forgo all those costly 'execution' related items like lawyers and judges and all those guys who work in the courts. Just throw him in a deep hole and fill it in. Does that work for you or are you going to insist we do all this by the books. If we do it by the books by the time Assange dies, we'll be well into the '30's and this story will have no 'verve', no zest. It'll just be a dried out piece of yesterdays news found on the back page of a sub-section called 'civics'.
Regardless of the pre-warmed cauldrons of lite-oil being readied in anticipation of dunking, he is now the property of the state and they will do with him exactly as it pleases. Any idiot thinking they can blackmail nations to do the bidding of a single person, well, historically, they've been dealt with swiftly and in a most straight forward and harsh manner. Assange and Manning have set a most dangerous example; there will be a concerted effort to have both locked up, in a Military jail, for the rest of their lives. Manning is a traitor. Assange is a terrorist. An Information Terrorist. Both will make good examples for decades.
2 people liked this. 2 人顶
 
(回楼上)我说 Saganz2 ,如果不能考虑活烧了他,那活埋了他怎么样?也不用那些昂贵的“处决”及其相关的玩意儿——诸如律师法官还有法庭陪审人员什么的。直接往坑里一扔埋掉了事。你看这建议怎么样?还是你一定坚持我们要照本宣科的来?如果来照本宣科的那套,到阿桑奇死时,我们等于回到了 30 年代,而且这故事也不再有任何“激情”可言。不过就是旧日新闻泛黄的后页上被称作“政治学”的小小分段。
 
不用看那些已经倒好热油架好了的锅,他现在是这个国家的财产,它想对他做啥就做啥。从历史上看,所有那些自认为可以凭着一个人开价来勒索一个国家的白痴,无不会被用简单粗暴的方法迅速摆平。阿桑奇和曼宁就树立了一个最危险的榜样;他们会在各方齐心协作的合作下被关起来,在军事监狱里度过余生。作为叛国者的曼宁,作为恐怖分子的阿桑奇——一个信息恐怖分子,在未来的几十年里都将被当做完美的示众对象。



jersey911
10 hours ago in reply to rvdixie
US government harmed a lot of people in the middle east....still looking for weapons on mass destruction in iraq...5,000 bodybags later nothing is found...the problem is in DC
5 people liked this. 5 人顶
 
(回 rvdixie )美国政府在中东害死了多少人? …. 现在还在伊拉克寻找大规模杀伤性武器呢 .… 结果除了整出 5000 个运尸袋来啥都没有找到 … 责任在华盛顿。



saveourfreedoms
7 hours ago in reply to john_m_at_yahoo
This is a global war on terror. Assange is a global terrorist. He will have his day in the Swedish court system, and when the Swedes are finished with him, the World Court will try him for treason against the free world. Assuming he lives that long....
1 person liked this. 1 人顶
 
(回 1 楼 john_m_at_yahoo )这是一场全球性的对恐怖主义的抗争。阿桑奇是个全球恐怖分子。他将面临来自瑞典法庭的审判,等瑞典审完了之后,他将迎来国际法庭的审判,因为他背叛的是整个自由世界。我是说,如果他还能活到国际法庭审判的时候。。。
 
【茶,代表亚洲没啥了不起,牛 X 的人都是代表全球 ~ 】



166mhz
15 hours ago in reply to john_m_at_yahoo
fat chance on that ..
Like ReplyReply
 
(回 1 楼 john_m_at_yahoo )这怕很难。。。


john_m_at_yahoo
15 hours ago in reply to 166mhz
You'd be surprised... He has alot of support in the UK. The government may be weak, but the legal system should make it difficult for the government to push this. It's judges and lawyers who will decide his fate, not the partially pro-American government. It has taken years to get Gary McKinnon extradited to the US, but Julian has alot more support. The British people will not be walked all over again like we were over the Iraq war.
16 people liked this. 16 人顶
 
等着瞧好了,你会吃惊的 …阿桑奇在英国的支持者甚多。(英国)政府也许是软脚虾,但法律制度的存在将使政府很难在这事儿上猫腻。能决定阿桑奇命运的是法官和律师,不是那个偏见的亲美政府。当初把 加里 ·麦金 农引渡到美国就花了好几年,何况阿桑奇有着多得多的支持者。英国人可不会再像伊战时那样了,我们没那么容易被人牵着鼻子走。
 
【 加里 ·麦金 农—— 现年 42岁的英国黑客 Gary McKinnon 被称为“ 世界头号黑 客”他 被控在 2001年和 2002年非法侵入了美军五角大楼和美国军方运算机网络而获罪,他自称其侵入的目标是寻找美国政府掩饰外星人存留的凭证。他成功侵入了 NASA(美航天航空局) ,美国空军,美国海军以及国防部的运算机网络体系,制作了有史以来最大的军方网络侵入案件 。他已被从英国引渡回美国。】



mediocrates
13 hours ago in reply to john_m_at_yahoo
The rule of law will stand. Mr. Assange will face justice in Sweden first, then he will face charges in the US. If England wants the United States to become a haven for their own criminal minds, then fail to live up to your treaty and extradition obligations.
3 people liked this. 3 人顶
 
(回复楼上)最终也是法律说了算。阿桑奇先生首先会面对来自瑞典的审判,再然后是来自美国的指控。如果英国不怕美国也变成英国罪犯的庇护所,那就只管违背你们签署的条约和定下的引渡义务好了。



thinkanonymous
17 hours ago
The informational war will be won by the people.
33 people liked this. 33 人顶
 
最终赢得信息之战的将是人民。



godlovestheusa
16 hours ago in reply to thinkanonymous
Which people? 
Al Qaeda? Taliban?
14 people liked this. 14 人顶
 
(回复楼上)哪里的“人民”?
塔利班的?基地组织的?



freenclear
9 hours ago in reply to thinkanonymous
BTW Assange, your 15 minutes are officially up. Now you're going to rot in a cell for whatever is left of your life. Hope it was worth it.
4 people liked this. 4 人顶
 
(回复 thinkanonymous ) 顺便说一下,阿桑奇,你昙花一现的演出已正式宣告结束。现在你的余生都将在牢里待到烂掉。希望你自己觉得值。



ilovejesus558
16 hours ago
He should be extridited here to the US and be put in a military court along with PFC. Bradley Manning (the retard who gave Assange the leaks in the first place). Bradley should be convicted of high treason and executed. Assange should be charged with terrorism and espionage and be executed. These people have left the gates wide open for our enemies to use the information against us. The leaks have the names of confidential Afghan informants who helped NATO by telling them where the terrorist activity was. Now the terrorists are going to find the informants and stone them and their families to death.
28 people liked this. 28 人顶
 
他应该被引渡到美国,和那个 陆军大 兵 布莱德雷·曼宁(就是最初 提供美国机密文件给 “维基解密 ”的混蛋 ) 一起上军事法庭。 布莱德雷该以严重叛国罪被判死刑。阿桑奇该以从事恐怖主义活动及间谍罪被判死刑。这帮人替那些想利用信息打击我们的敌人大开方便之门。解密里有一份机密的阿富汗线人名单,这些线人们向北约通报恐怖分子都在何处活动。可现在呢,恐怖分子将会找出这些线人,把他们和他们的家人用石块活活砸死。



14 hours ago in reply to ilovejesus558
You're right, he should be executed, but I don't think we should waste the time and money (that we don't have) to take him to trial. We have all the proof we need. And yes, the treasonous US soldier, (and I use the word soldier VERY lightly here) should be rounded up and executed at the same time and in the same place. Don't forget, Manning isn't the only one supplying Assange with documents. ANYONE who is guilty of stealing classified government documents and handing them over to this coward Assange, should be found and they should be executed on the grounds of treason and theft as well. Regardless of where they come from.
9 people liked this. 9 人顶
 
你说得对,他是该死,但我可不认为我们该浪费功夫和金钱(而且我们也没这些钱)去搞一场审判。我们需要的一切证据就摆在眼前。还有,没错,该把那个背叛了美国的大兵(用在这儿简直玷污了士兵这个词儿)也赶到一块儿,两个人同时就地处以死刑。别忘了,曼宁不是唯一给阿桑奇提供材料的人。任何人,只要他偷窃政府机密材料交给了阿桑奇那软蛋,同样该被揪出来,以叛国和盗窃之名判处死刑。甭管他们是从哪个国家来的。



PaperPhantom
10 hours ago
What a sad society we live in. Our founding fathers must be turning in their graves. I can't believe a person who exposes the truth would be called a terrorist...but this only proves Ron Paul right.
"Truth is Treason, in the Empire of Lies." -Ron Paul
"A government or an administration, who means and acts honestly, has nothing to fear, and consequently has nothing to conceal." -Thomas Paine
25 people liked this. 25 人顶
 
我们活在一个多么悲哀的社会呵。倘若国父们泉下有知,想必死不瞑目。我不敢相信一个人居然仅仅因为说出了真相就被称作恐怖分子 …. 这只能证明 Ron Paul的话是对的。
 
“在谎言的帝国里,真相即是叛国。”—— by Ron Paul
“假如政府或机关言行诚信,就没有什么好畏惧,自然也没什么需要隐藏。”—— by Thomas Paine
 
【又是 Ron Paul呵呵,米帝家娃到底对这位有多怨念啊。。】



earljackson
9 hours ago in reply to PaperPhantom
Thomas Paine was not around for the Internet. Grow up.
2 people liked this. 2 人顶
 
(回 PaperPhantom )那个 Thomas Paine 可是生活在没有互联网的时代。成熟点儿吧你。



joebarr
10 hours ago in reply to PaperPhantom
he moron, he may be exposing the "truth" but at the cost of national security. please don't be stupid.
7 people liked this. 7 人顶
 
(回 PaperPhantom )阿桑奇是个蠢货,他也许的确是曝光了某些“真相”,但这是以国家安全为代价的。拜托别犯傻好不。



PaperPhantom
9 hours ago in reply to joebarr
"but at the cost of national security"
But is there really any evidence of that? Can you name even one person who has been killed, as a direct result of the previous leaks?
4 people liked this. 4 人顶
 
(回楼上)“以国家安全为代价”
 
这个说法有证据么?你能例举出哪怕一个,因为先前的解密而直接被杀害的人吗?



etp275
9 hours ago in reply to PaperPhantom
That so-called 'truth' put our troops in danger. Your sentiments are very anti-American. Assange is a traitor.
Like ReplyReply
 
(回 PaperPhantom )就是那些所谓的“真相”让我们的军队陷入危险。你的观点是反美国人的。
 
阿桑奇他就是个叛徒。



PaperPhantom
9 hours ago in reply to etp275
How can he be a traitor? He is not an American citizen, therefore owes absolutely no allegiance to this country.
As for my sentiments being anti-American, that depends on how you define American. I can only speak for myself, but I think an American is someone who values and uses their rights. I think a true American is one who despises tyranny.
In the end, a true American stands for Liberty. Including the freedom of speech. I'm glad you would give me your own thoughts about this, but in the end, I must respectfully disagree.
5 people liked this. 5 人顶
 
(回楼上)啥叫“叛徒”?人家压根儿不是美国公民,对这个国家本来就没有效忠的义务。
 
至于说到我的看法是否反美国人,这得看你如何来定义美国人。我只能代表我自己的想法,但在我看来,一个美国人应该是珍视和善用自己权利的人,我认为一个真正的美国人应该是蔑视专横暴政的人。
 
最后,真正的美国人会捍卫自由,包括言论自由。关于这个我很高兴你有你的看法,但最终,请容我怀抱敬意地保留分歧。



cruciblethorn
9 hours ago in reply to PaperPhantom
Paper...the one thing you will not get through to these brain washed twits around here is that anything the US Government is afraid of is labeled a terrorist. Most prefer to submit themselves to the Will of the State and are Deh Fuhrer candidates for sure. Let them click their heels, Sieg Heil, take the mark and become slaves to corruption and perversion.....it's what they deserve.
(Edited by author 9 hours ago)
6 people liked this. 6 人顶
 
(回 PaperPhantom )算了 Paper 兄 ….. 有一件事你是无论怎样都跟这里这些被洗脑了的笨蛋讲不清楚的:那就是任何美国政府害怕的东西都会被贴上恐怖主义的标签。这儿的大部分百分百都会是希特勒的候选人,他们时刻准备着为国家意志牺牲一切。那就让他们去磕他们的军靴,行纳粹礼,打上记号画押,去做腐败和颠倒是非的奴隶好了 ….. 他们活该如此。



etp275
9 hours ago in reply to cruciblethorn
cruciblethorn, I hope you have loved ones on the front lines and I hope you'll ask them how they feel about this traitor, Assange, putting their lives in danger. Its people like YOU who are akin to Hitler. You twist the facts to fit what your insane brain wants and its obvious that you don't give a rats behind about our American troops.
4 people liked this. 4 人顶
 
(回楼上) Cruciblethorn ,我真希望你有亲人在前线,我希望你可以问问,他们对这个使大家生命陷入危险的叛徒——阿桑奇——是什么感觉。你这种人才是希特勒的同类。单凭你那神经质的大脑里一厢情愿的想法肆意扭曲事实。而且很显然,你压根就没在乎过我们美军的生死。



 cruciblethorn
9 hours ago in reply to etp275
How many people (troops and civilians) dead from Wikileaks: 0
How many people (troops and civilians) dead from US Imperialism and the Military Industrial Complex: Millions.
Get it? And I do have family and friends in the military and they are disgusted with our government and the atrocities they have seen overseas from our useless wars that have not accomplished anything to date but more suffering to innocent civilians trying to live their lives.
5 people liked this. 5 人顶
 
(回楼上)
 
有多少人(包括军人和普通公民)因为维基解密而死: 0
 
有多少人(包括军人和普通公民)因为美帝国主义和军工产业集团而死:数百万计
 
明白了么?我的的确确有家人和朋友在当兵,他们无不对政府的所作所为厌恶至极,在海外他们亲眼目睹了我们那些无意义的战争所带来的暴行,除了使努力过活的无辜平民遭受到更多的折磨外,这些战争迄今为止一无所获。



 bigword2
16 hours ago
The anarchist Assange is a disgrace.
24 people liked this. 24 人顶
 
无政府主义者阿桑奇是个耻辱。



mattinfoxboro
9 hours ago
Western Civilization no longer upholds the values it proclaims, so what is the basis for its claim to virtue?
Disregard for the First Amendment is well established in the U.S. media, which functions as a propaganda ministry for the government.
For example, the U.S. print and TV media and the U.S. government have made it completely clear that they have no regard for the First Amendment. Consider CNN's Wolf Blitzer's reaction to the leaked diplomatic cables that reveal how the U.S. government uses deceptions, bribes, and threats to control other governments and to deceive the American and other publics. Blitzer is outraged that information revealing the U.S. government's improprieties reached the people, or some of them. As Alexander Cockburn wrote, Blitzer demanded that the U.S. government take the necessary steps to make certain that journalists and the American people never again find out what their government is up to.
 
The disregard for the First Amendment is well established in the U.S. media, which functions as a propaganda ministry for the government. Remember the NSA leak given to the New York Times that the George W. Bush regime was violating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and spying on Americans without obtaining warrants from the FISA court? The New York Times spiked the story for one year and did not release it until after Bush's reelection. By then, the Bush regime had fabricated a legal doctrine that "authorized" Bush to violate U.S. law.
 
西方文明已经不再维护它所标榜的价值观了,那么这种标榜还有什么存在的价值?
 
美媒视宪法第一修正案如无物的例子比比皆是,媒体早就做了政府的喉舌。 
 
举个例子,美国纸媒、电视和美国政府早就说得再清楚不过了:他们才不鸟什么第一修正案呢。解密曝光的外交电报揭示了美国政府是怎样用欺诈、贿赂和威逼来控制他国政府,欺骗美国和世界民众的——看看 CNN 的老牌记者 Wolf Blitzer 对这些电报的反应吧。看着这些揭露美国丑态的信息传到了民间, Blitzer 都快气炸了。就像 Alexander Cockburn (美国政治记者)说的那样: Blitzer 要求美国政府采取必要措施,以确保记者和美国民众永远不会发现他们的政府下作到了何种地步。
 
再说一次,美媒视宪法第一修正案如无物的例子比比皆是,媒体早就做了政府的喉舌。
 
还记不记得在当年的国安局泄密事件中,泄密者给《纽约时代》爆料小布什违反《对外情报监视法案》,以及在未获得情报监视法院授权的情况下监听美国民众。《纽约时代》把这消息雪藏了一年,直到小布什的连任选举结束后才敢发表。而等它发表时,布什政府早就已经捏造出了一套法律歪理,明目张胆地“授权”布什先生违反美国法律了。 
 
The U.S. government definitely does not believe in accountable government. Among the first things the Obama regime did was to make certain that there would be no investigation into the Bush regime's use of lies, fabricated "intelligence," and deception of the American public and the United Nations in order to further its agenda of conquering the independent Mu slim states in the Middle East and turning them into U.S. puppets. The Obama regime also made certain that no member of the Bush regime would be held accountable for violating U.S. and international laws, for torturing detainees, for war crimes, for privacy violations or for any of the other criminal acts of the Bush regime.
As the cables leaked by a patriotic American to WikiLeaks reveal, the U.S. government was even able to prevent accountable government in the UK by having British prime minister Brown "fix" the official Chilcot Inquiry into the deceptions used by former prime minister Tony Blair to lead the British into serving as mercenaries in America's wars. The U.S. was able to do this because the British prime minister does not believe in accountable government either.
The leaked documents show that the last thing the U.S. government wants anywhere is a government that is accountable to its own citizens instead of to the U.S. government.
The obvious, but unasked, question is: Why does the U.S. government fear the American people and believe that only news that is managed and spun by the government is fit to print? Is there an agenda afoot to turn citizens into subjects?
 
美国政府绝对不信什么“尽责的政府”。奥巴马政权上台后干得第一件事,就是确保不会有人去调查当年布什政府扯谎捏造的所谓“情报”,正是那些“情报”诓骗了美国大众和联合国,只为了推进他入侵中东地区独立的穆斯林国家、将其变成亲美傀儡政权的计划。奥巴马政府同样确保不会有人追究布什政权成员的种种违反美国法和国际法的罪行,比如拷打被拘留者,发动战争罪、侵犯隐私罪、以及布什政府的其他犯罪。
 
根据一个真正爱国的美国人向维基解密提供的电报揭露,美国政府甚至有能力阻碍英国政府对其国民尽责,通过要求英国首相布朗“搞定”齐尔考 特调查小组【注 】 ,将其 变成前首相托尼布莱尔曾使用过的骗局,以便拿着英国人当美国的佣兵使唤。而美国之所以能做到这个,是因为大不列颠的首相也并不对自己的国民尽责。
 
被解密的文件表明,美国政府最最不愿看到的,就是他国的政府选择对自己的国民负责,而不是做美国政府的傀儡。有个再明显不过的问题,却偏偏没人开口问,那就是:为什么美国政府如此害怕自己的人民,以至于认为只有经政府操纵和编排好的新闻才能被发表??这是一个正在进行中的,将公民打造为顺民的计划么? 
 
Perhaps the most discouraging development is the accusation that is being spread via the Internet that Julian Assange is a dupe or even a covert agent used by the CIA and Mossad to spread disinformation that furthers U.S. and Israeli agendas. This accusation might come from intelligence services striving to protect governments by discrediting the leaked information. However, it has gained traction because some of the cables contain false information. Some have concluded, incorrectly, that the false information was put into the documents for the purpose of being leaked.
There is another explanation for the false information. Diplomats concerned with advancing their careers learn to tell their bosses what they want to hear, whether true or false. Diplomats understand that the U.S. government has agendas that it cannot declare and that they are expected to support these agendas by sending in reports that validate the undeclared agendas. For example, the U.S. government cannot openly say that it is endeavoring to create a climate of opinion that gives the U.S. a green light for eliminating the independent Iranian government and re-establishing an American puppet state. U.S. "diplomats," a.k.a. spies, understand this and fabricate the information that supports the agenda.
Disregard for the First Amendment is well established in the U.S. media, which functions as a propaganda ministry for the government.
 
事态最糟的发展也许还是现在互联网上流传出对朱利安·阿桑奇的一种指控:他们说阿桑奇是个上了 CIA 和摩萨德(以色列情报局) 当的傻子,或者干脆就是受命于 CIA 和摩萨德的特务,专门用来散布虚假信息以推进美国和以色列的计划。这种指控也许恰恰是来自情报机构为了保护政府、抹黑解密文件所做的努力。无论如何,这指控确实起作用了,因为有些被解密的电报确实包含虚假信息。有些人因此就得出错误结论,说那些虚假信息是有目的的被植入,刻意提供给解密者来用的。
 
其实对于虚假信息的存在完全可以有另一种解释。那就是:外交官员为了自己升迁的考虑,学会了说他们老板想听的话,而不在意这话的真假。外交官们知道美国政府有些不能被公布于众的计划,而这些秘密计划想要实现,就得靠外交官在外交报告中写点儿什么来帮忙。比方说,现在美国政府正致力于营造一种舆论导向,以便能为美国干掉自主的伊朗政权、扶植亲美的傀儡政府大开绿灯——可这些美国政府自己又不能公开说,所以美国的“外交官”(别名间谍)们心领神会了这一点,他们就开始捏造各种信息,来帮政府实现这一计划。
 
美媒无视宪法第一修正案的例子比比皆是,媒体早已做了政府的喉舌。
 
【注:齐尔考 特调查小组—— 英国针对政府对伊拉克战争的介入进行的调查听证,调查委员会主席齐尔考 特曾 表 示 一定会保证该调查的全面和公平,如果证据确凿,不会回避批评某些个人或机构 。 齐尔考特的调查小组将审查大量资料,传唤目击证人进行公开或者私人作证,包括军队,政 府和情报官员。预期还将要求前美国白宫官员提供证据 。
 
英国卷入伊拉克战争的行为在英国国内非常不受欢迎 ,有人指控政府歪曲情报,为这场战争辩护。 此前曾经对英国卷入伊拉克战争问题进行了两次调查,但是在范围方面受到限制 。 】
22 people liked this. 22 人顶



cruciblethorn
9 hours ago in reply to mattinfoxboro
Good points..too bad they will fall on deaf ears, dumb a$$es and blind sheep.
6 people liked this. 6 人顶
 
(回楼上mattinfoxboro)真知灼见。……杯具的是,在这儿真知灼见将等同于对牛弹琴。



epicgal
9 hours ago in reply to mattinfoxboro
agree
3 people liked this. 3 人顶
 
(回mattinfoxboro) 确实如此。



mytake
10 hours ago
Which has harmed the US more. Julian Assange or Obama? Problem here is that Julian has upstaged Obama in the News.
16 people liked this. 16 人顶
 
谁把美国害得更惨?是阿桑奇?还是奥巴马?现在的问题是:在新闻里,阿桑奇显然已经抢了奥巴马的镜。



crayzee1
6 hours ago
To all you open truths peeps: Every civilian doesn't have a right to know everything. get over it. But let's go down that path... why lock doors? Why even put codes on nuclear weapons? SHould he publish that on the web too? Or maybe even the locations to them? Should be a website out there thats list's everyone's name, number, ss#, credit card numbers. Or how about a public database that lists everyone that tests positive for any disease. See, some things, everyone just doesn't need to know.
 
I sleep soundly at night, knowing my government whether that sob obama, or GW, or CLinton or any other prez, will do what it takes to keep US safe in THIS country. The world is not a friendly place, handing out flowers and saying "I love yoo brother" to every other person on the planet will not keep bad people from harming us. Sometimes you have to get your hands dirty and do bad things for the greater good. I 100% completely accept it and endorse it. I'm glad our leaders, our military are willing to do it for us. If you are so adamant about truth, go a whole day and tell everyone you come arcoss all you secrets, and personal information, leave you house unlocked, heck put up a sign and let people know your front door is open and you are on vacation. WHY nOT! The truth will set you free.
15 people liked this.   15 人顶
 
对你们所有这些主张公开真相的偷窥狂们说一句:任何公民的知情权都不是无限制的。看开点吧。不过让我们这样分析 … 为什么人们需要锁门呢?为什么给核武的启动设置密码?阿桑奇该不该把这密码也给发到网上去?甚至公开核武的位置?是不是也该有个网站,上面收录我们每个人的姓名、电话、社会保险号、信用卡号?或者干脆建个公共数据库,把所有做疾病检测呈阳性的人的化验结果给放上去?看见没,有些事儿,人们根本没必要知道。
 
我每天晚上能睡得安稳,是因为我知道我的政府——不管奥巴马政府也好,小布什政府、克林顿政府或其他谁当总统的政府都好——将会尽一切努力来保障我们在这个国家里过得安全。世道并不太平,即使你天天撒花,跟这星球上每个人都宣扬兄弟爱,也阻止不了坏人来伤害我们。有些时候你将不得不玷污双手,不得不为了实现更大的正义去做些卑鄙的事。我百分百理解这一点,也百分百支持。我很高兴我们的领袖,我们的军队肯为了我们去做这些。如果你就那么纠结那所谓的“真相”,那找一天,去告诉每个人你全部的秘密,你的个人信息;还有别锁房门,竖块儿牌子上书“前门大敞,主人外出”。干嘛不这么做呢!不是说真相能带来自由的嘛。



cruciblethorn
6 hours ago in reply to crayzee1
I will say this peacefully. Wikileaks' release of the documents is not about wanting to know every single thing about the government. This is about demonstrating how politicians hide their corruption and criminality in the middle of national security, label it national security, use our soldiers as meat shields to protect this national security all in order to protect their secret agendas and hide their lies and deceit. This Must Stop and We the People must know what they are doing so we can bring them to justice and put this country back on a path of being a bastion for freedom, peace and light for the world to see and model themselves after for the sake of our future and those of the coming generations.
8 people liked this.
 
咱心平气和地说,维基解密曝光的那些文件并不是想要探究政府的方方面面。它只是要证明政客们是如何把他们的腐败和罪行藏匿于国家安全之中。一切都被贴上了国家安全的标签,牺牲我们的士兵当肉盾来保护这所谓的“国家安全”,其实不过是为了保护政客的秘密计划以及他们的谎言和欺骗。这种事必须被制止,我们人民必须知道他们在干嘛,这样我们才能将有罪者绳之以法,使这个国家重新变为自由与和平的捍卫者,变为照亮这世界的一束光,变为世人模仿的榜样。这是为了我们的未来,也是为了我们下一代。



mxkid
10 hours ago
Anybody who thinks this punk needs to be waterboarded hit the like button.
21 people liked this. 21 人顶
 
谁同意该用水刑来对付这个混蛋(指阿桑奇)的,请顶我。
 
【水刑 :( waterboarding),是指一种使犯人以为自己快被溺毙的刑讯方式,犯人被绑成脚比头高的姿势,脸部被毛巾盖住,然后把水倒在犯人脸上。有关专家说,这种酷刑会使犯人产生快要窒息和淹死的感觉。 “水刑 ”自中世纪问世以来,一直被公认为是一种酷刑,在美国军方 2009年 9月份修改过的审讯手册中,写明禁止使用 “水刑 ”和其它被日内瓦公约禁止的 “残忍、不人道、有损人格 ”的审讯手段 。
 
美国使用的 “ 水刑 ” 效率很高 , 凡享用美国 “ 水刑 ” 的人,大约百分之八十的 人都会屈服,让他们说什么都会达到目的。剩下的大约百分之二十的受害人会在被活活折磨至死,为了减少受害人的死亡率,美国人做了技术



bertrand50
14 hours ago
You can't be both the freest country in the world and call for the extra-judicial execution of journalists I'm afraid. 
So, what'll it be? Want to turn into a mafia state and shut up about "freedom", or abide by international laws and carry on lecturing others on "freedom"?
13 people liked this 13 人顶
 
我说,乃们不能一边儿主张自个儿是世界上最自由的国度,一边叫嚣着要庭外处死新闻工作者吧。。
 
好了,现在要选哪样呢?想玩黑帮那套就别张口闭口扯什么“自由”,要想继续拿着“自由”去教育别人,那自己就好好遵守国际法先



southeryankee
14 hours ago in reply to bertrand50
He is NOT a journalist. And even if he were, journalists have no right to publish state secrets. It's a crime, plain and simple. What part of that do you not understand?
9 people liked this. 9 人顶
 
(回楼上)首先他不是什么新闻工作者。即便他是,新闻工作者一样无权公开国家机密。
这是犯罪,就这么简单点事儿。你到底哪个地方搞不明白?



lukegrissom_at_facebook
13 hours ago in reply to southeryankee
He is not a US citizen or a resident of the US. If an american journalist exposed inner workings of Iraq or Saudi Arabia, people would not be so quick to judge. Just becuase we are on the recieving side of the exposure doesn't mean he is an international criminal.
4 people liked this. 4 人顶
 
阿桑奇并不是美国公民,连美国居民都不是。如果换了是美国的记者曝出伊拉克或沙特阿拉伯的内幕,人们就不会这么快下定论了。总不能仅仅因为我们是解密的受害者,就把人家说成是国际罪犯吧。



dt0x75
13 hours ago in reply to lukegrissom_at_facebook
and this is just the tip of the iceberg... IF they want this to stop then they will need to shut down the internet.
 
这次的解密不过冰山一角 ….如果真想制止,除非他们拆了整个互联网。


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