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现实核查:16%的德国人声称中国成长太快已引其注意


Reality Check: 16% of Germans Feel Threatened by the Chinese
译者:unknown     发布时间:2019-08-19     超过 0 位网友阅读

在中国住了很长时间、学过中文的人来评论。大多数德国人不怎么提到中国

原文地址:https://www.reddit.com


Posted byu/Curoe Denmark1 day ago
Summary:
Survey of what countries the Germans feel are a threat:
Russia - 56%
USA - 55%
North Korea - 27%
Turkey - 24%
Sawdi Arabia - 23%
*China - 16%*

德国人声称中国成长太快已引其注意

总结——德国人认为哪个国家是威胁的调查结果:
俄罗斯-56%
美国-55%
朝鲜-27%
土耳其-24%
沙特阿拉伯-23%
中国-16%*

One of the benefits of growing up in multinational country is that you can read a shit load of articles from other countries and understand their perspective. Something that is lost on some of you because we know where you come from and it is unfortunate that your views are so singular.

在多民族国家长大的好处之一是,你可以阅读很多来自其他国家的文章,了解他们的想法。同时你们中有人也失去了一些东西,因为人们知道你来自哪里,且很不幸你的观点是特别的。

So I would like to give everyone a reality check. The world doesn't see China as a security threat. They do see it is dangerous and needs control but not as the creature the people in this sub makes it out to be. There are more horrible countries on this planet and most of the trolls come from that
When the world leader is considered one of the top threats to global security we have a problem. When the world leader has to send their own to troll a subreddit day in and day out this is just sad.

所以我想让大家了解下实际情况。世界并不认为中国是一个安全威胁。他们确实认为中国是危险的,需要被控制,但不是这个论坛里的人们所捏造出来的那种威胁。这个星球上有很多(比中国)更可怕的国家,而当世界领导人被认为是影响全球安全的头号威胁之一时,我们就有麻烦了,这个时候会出现很多喷子。当世界领导人不得不派自己的人日复一日在红迪网子板块上喷人时,这简直悲哀至极。

i.e. I see these ignits spamming 5G even when it isn't about 5G!

换言之,我会看到有人在某帖子下煽风点火臭辩狂发5G很烂的回复,即使这个帖子谈论的并非是5G!




Kopfballer
As a german I can tell you that people here just don't have ANY opinion about China neither good nor bad. So I think 16% saying China is a threat is actually A LOT.

作为一个德国人,我能负责人地告诉你,德国人对中国并没有什么看法,无论好坏。所以我觉得16%的人说中国是威胁实际上已经很多了。

There also isn't much tourism going to China. If german people go asia for vacation it is usually something like Bali or Thailand if they want to see east asia then Japan. China is quite low on the list so they don't know how things work in china.

另外,去中国旅行的德国人不多。德国人去亚洲旅行通常去巴厘岛、泰国,东亚的话就去日本。中国在(旅游)榜单排名很后面,没人知道中国是怎样的。

About the US: A big part of people who grew up in eastern germany are still very sceptical of the USA no wonder as they grew up with Anti-US propaganda in the GDR also since Trump took power the media is quite biased about the US. I also hate Trump but I have the feeling that the media here generally became quite Anti-America in the last 2 years. Still this is a temporal thing I'm pretty sure when Obama was president the US was a lot lower on the list and also will be again once Trump is gone.
North Korea again is high on the list because of Media... in recent years there were more daily news about the small north korea than about the big China. The conflict between the US and NK is a recurring topic in daily news here for the last 6-7 years I think.

至于美国,在德国东部长大的大部分人对美国持怀疑态度,因为他们是在有反美宣传的东德长大的,尤其现在特朗普上台后媒体对美国的偏见相当严重。我也讨厌特朗普,但我感觉这边的媒体在过去两年变得相当反美。但这是暂时的,我确信奥巴马时期反美的人很少,一旦特朗普下台就会恢复到过去那样。朝鲜由于媒体报道的原因也在榜单高位……近几年,对小朝鲜的报道比大中国还多。美国和朝鲜的争端在过去6-7年不断成为媒体头条。

Turkey and Saudi Arabia are probably high on the list because of the growing fear of Islam/Migration. Before 2015 and the migrant crisis they wouldn't have been so high on the list.

土耳其和沙特阿拉伯也在榜单前位,是因为对移民/伊斯兰(恐怖分子)日益增长的恐惧。2015年移民危机爆发之前,这两国不会占据榜单高位。



-IntoTheVoid-
“The Bild newspaper (or Bild-Zeitung literally Picture; [G2;b=8;lt]) is a German tabloid published by Axel Springer AG.
...
It is argued Bild's thirst for sensationalism results in the terrorizing of prominent celebrities and stories are frequently based on the most dubious evidence. The journalistic standards of Bild are the subject of frequent criticism.”

“《图片报(The Bild newspaper》是由阿克塞尔·施普林格(Axel Springer AG)发行的德国小报。该报因热衷于恐吓名人、不时地发些没根据的哗众取宠的报道而饱受争议。《图片报》的新闻报道宗旨常受批评。”

Reality check Bild is an unreliable source that has been called out in the past for fabricating information?
Using reputable sources paints a very different picture:
1)Only 39% of German have a favourable view of China
2)60% believe China will not do the right thing regarding world affairs
3)More than 80% think China does not respect human rights

事实检验:《图片报》过去因编造新闻被看成是不可靠的信息来源?用有信誉的消息来源则会得出不同的结论:
1)只有39%的德国人对中国有好感;
2)60%认为中国在世界事务中不会秉公处事;
3)80%的人认为中国不尊重人权;

Becoming a China apologist requires you to commit the same logical and ethical mistakes as a US apologist. There's a middle ground that's unsullied by logical and ethical fallacies that's difficult to find but worth defending.

一味地为中国辩护会使你犯一些逻辑和道德错误,就像一味地为美国辩护一样。存在这样一个中间地带,不受逻辑和道德谬论的玷污,虽然这样的地带很难找到,但值得被捍卫。



Curoe
I am not disillusioned I know China sucks a lot in many aspects.
But I live here I dont need people questioning/ridiculing my life decisions and asking me whether the government checked my passport on the streets or whether I have lung cancer yet. I am just pissed. And there's only one thing a pissed person can do online. Throw rationality out the window.

我不是不幻灭,我知道中国在很多方面都很糟糕。但我住在这里,我不需要别人质疑或取笑我的人生决定。当被问到政府会不会在街上检查我的护照或者我是否得了肺癌,我都会感到很恼火,而在网络上一个怒火中烧的人只有一件事情可以做,那就是将理性丢出窗外。

If you can show me the middle ground among this mess I'll gladly follow. But I just dont see it in this toxic environment and it's time to clear the swamp...... yes I know how effective that will be it won't be at all. But as said I am irrationally pissed.

如果你能告诉我这个中间地带在哪里,我会欣然前往。但我在这种有毒环境下根本看不到它,是时候该清除泥沼了.....是的,即使我知道这会颇有成效,但最终什么都不会发生的。正如我所说,我已经愤怒得失去理智了。



shishiqiushi
The view of people who post here comes from living in China for long periods of time and studying Chinese.
Most Germans don't think about China very often. But I'd wager that the Germans who have lived in China or studied Chinese are overwhelmingly in that 16%.

在中国住了很长时间、学过中文的人来评论。大多数德国人不怎么提到中国。但我打赌,那些在中国居住过或者学过中文的德国人会在那16%之中。



TimesThreeTheHighest
What is a "multinational country?" Do you mean multicultural? How would China (Germany?) be more multicultural than anywhere else?

什么叫“多国国家”?你是说多元文化吗?哪里还有比中国(德国?)文化更多元的地方?

United Statesians South Koreans and Germans hold comparable favorable ratings as to China: 38% or 39%.
Now I propose that South Koreans will view China as a greater security threat as compared to USians and Germans. Why? Its a matter of geographic proximity. Threat perception has geographic dimensions. That is one reason why so many Germans view Russia as an equivalent threat to even the US; its simply closer.

美国人、韩国人和德国人对中国都有相近的好感度:38%-39%。现在,我觉得相较于美国、德国而言,韩国人会把中国当成更大的安全威胁。为什么呢?由于地理位置上的接近。威胁的认知是有地理维度的。这也是为什么那么多德国人把俄罗斯当作比美国还大的威胁——就是因为离得太近了。



richardhh
To be honest if the American propaganda machines are running at full power they could easily make any country's leader (including their own) the top threat within a year or so.

实话说,假如美国的宣传机器全力开动,他们能让任何国家的首脑(包括他们自己的)在一年之内成为世界最大的安全威胁。



mr-wiener
Nothing about the French?

没法国人什么事吗?



ohmygawd321
[What does that mean exactly? We should switch to a steady stream of posts praising the CCP]
No but how about come back down to Earth? How about not rattle off something you read or hear on English news as the truth without any further thought or research? How about discussing something without bias? Without automatically dismissing something contrary to a warped one sided world view and labelling that person a CCP schill or wumao.

【这到底什么意思啊?我们要转向天天给中国唱赞歌——中国领导下的绿色ge命、世界和谐之类的了吗?】
不,但现实点如何?少为看到或听到那些没根据的、没进一步思考或研究的英文媒体报道而闹腾如何?不带偏见地讨论如何?避免因为机械地摒弃一些(来自)相异的好像扭曲的一边倒的世界观的东西而给他们贴上标签如何?

How about not being a group of bigoted drones repeating the same shit ironically the characteristic that is labeled upon every Chinese in this sub by all of you horny balding unsuccessful hairy pimple pock marked face sacks of loser shits straight out of that interracial dating video I just saw where my eyes hurt after watching 30 seconds.

停止像一群顽固的机器人那样不断重复一样的狗屁话如何?讽刺的是你们这班淫烂、秃头、失败、猴子一样的满脸脓包的麻子脸废材们在这个调查中给每个中国人贴的标签在那个跨种族约会的视频里像拉稀一样倾泄而出,我才看了30秒就快把眼睛脏瞎了。


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