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为什么美国和中国似乎主导着科技行业,而欧洲没有?


Why is it that the US and China seem to dominate the tech industry rather than Europe?
译者:unknown     发布时间:2020-07-27     超过 0 位网友阅读

欧洲需要更多像空客这样的公司来与美国和中国竞争




Why is it that the US and China seem to dominate the tech industry rather than Europe?

为什么美国和中国似乎主导着科技行业,而欧洲没有?

为什么美国和中国似乎主导着科技行业





Sam King, Technology Reviewer and Developer (1998-present)
We have the talent and the ambition but the problem is that Europe is too fragmented with markets that are too small, too specific (i.e. they want to use their own languages), too inflexible and labour too costly for companies to reinvent itself and develop new technologies.
As a result, we saw the decline of these guys,
But unlike Europe, they are a united group that became the world’s super manufacturers and masters at adapting to two of the largest markets in the world, the world and their own. Plus, they only use one language to get things done - Mandarin.
Years of manufacturing tends to turn a diligent worker into a master. So he/she went from this,

Sam King, 技术审查和开发人员(1998-至今)

我们有人才和雄心,但问题在于,欧洲市场太过分散,市场规模太小,太特殊(比如,他们想使用自己的语言),太缺乏灵活性,劳动力成本太高,公司无法进行自我改造和开发新技术。

因此,我们看到了这些公司的衰落,但与欧洲不同的是,他们是一个统一的集体,成为了全球超级制造商,并擅于适应并成为全球最大的两大市场之一——世界和他们自己。此外,他们只用一门语言——普通话。多年的生产往往会使勤奋的工人成为大师。



David Janssen
The US is on a downward trend, too. Still their tech sector is much bigger.

美国同样处于下行趋势。尽管他们的科技行业依然庞大。



Joseph Wang
China is simply “recovering” to the strongest power, just like it had been for millenium.

中国只是在“恢复”成为最强大的国家,就像千年以前一样。



Valerio Syracuse
including Larry Jackson
China’s decline started somewhere in the 1400’s or 1500’s, but wasn’t that bad until the West rapidly developed in the Industrial Revolution (1820s to 1890s).

中国的衰落始于14世纪或16世纪,但并没有那么糟糕,直到西方在工业ge命(19世纪20年代到19世纪90年代)中迅速发展。



Cheong Tee
Don’t understand how language diversity could be a problem for technology development for Europe. English has been a well established medium, fluency is no problem among tech people.

不明白为什么语言多样性会成为欧洲技术发展的一个问题。

英语已经成为一种成熟的媒介,对于技术人员来说,流利是不成问题的。



Adam Wantoch
Given that some of you are saying Europe is on decline, let me just point out that there are other factors to consider when making such statement. Yes Europe is not great in software technology, but the EU is the biggest exported in the world in monetary terms and it has had an export/import surplus for decades, just not that of software technology. Also, the European population is stable or even declining in some of its countries, wereas other countries including the US its populations are continuing to grow, hence overall weight of a european country may be proportionately declining, but pro capita data is not.

鉴于你们有些人在说欧洲正在衰退,我需要指出,在发表这样的声明时,还有其他一些因素需要考虑。

是的,欧洲在软件技术方面做得不太好,但以货币计算,欧盟是世界上最大的出口国,而且它已经有了几十年的出口/进口盈余,只是不是软件技术的盈余。此外,欧洲人口在其中一些国家是稳定的,甚至是下降的。相反,包括美国在内的其他国家的人口在持续增长,因此,一个欧洲国家的总体比重可能会按比例下降,但人均数据没有。



Zhirayr Avetisyan
The US is ahead mostly in consumer software technologies. This is realated to the looser privacy and intellectual property rules - a price most Europeans are prepared to pay. When it comes to large scale infrastructure software where quality is more important than fast delivery, Europe leads (e.g. SAP). And if we talk about hardware technogies, all governments trust Krupp and Siemens and others. It is the cheap and fast technology (as food) that the US is doing well about.

美国主要在消费软件技术方面领先。这与更宽松的隐私和知识产权规则有关——这是大多数欧洲人也愿意付出的代价。

当谈到大规模的基础设施软件时,质量比快速交付更重要,这点欧洲领先(例如SAP)。至于硬件技术,所有政府都信任克虏伯(德国军火制造商)、西门子和其他公司。美国在廉价和快速技术(如食品)方面做得很好。



Austin Kesler
This answer really isn’t relevant to the question. Sure China can produce quality products these days but besides that I don’t get the point. The United States is the same way.

这个答案与问题无关。
中国现在确实可以生产高质量的产品,但除此之外,我不明白你想要表达什么。美国也是如此。



Sam King
including Austin Kesler
The point is that Europe has a massive population that is divided, whereas China has a massive population that is united (the US has a smaller population than both, but they are still big, just as diverse yet still united as one country). The former is made up of countries that can’t really work together, whereas the latter is made up of provinces/states that can.
When a country develops with a massive labour force, talent, nationally recognised infrastructures and resources, it tends to progress much faster.

问题的关键在于,欧洲有大量分裂的人口,而中国有大量统一的人口(美国的人口比欧洲和中国都少,当然他们仍然很大,就像一个国家一样多元而又团结)。

前者是由无法实质合作的国家组成的,而后者是由可以合作的省/州组成的。当一个国家拥有庞大的劳动力、人才、国家认可的基础设施和资源,它的发展往往会快得多。



Willoughby Raffles
Speak for the rest of Europe if you wish, but not the UK. The UK''s performance on tech is 3rd behind only the US and China and doing better than France and Germany combined. UK has many issues, but the future economy is not one of them.

如果你愿意,你可以代表欧洲其他国家,但不要代表英国。英国在科技方面的表现仅次于美国和中国,排在第三位,超过了法国和德国的总和。英国有很多问题,但未来经济不是其中之一。



Sam King
I wish that was true Richard but we’re certainly behind Germany.

我希望这是真的,但我们肯定落后于德国。



Willoughby Raffles
Not in tech we''re not. We''re way ahead.

在科技领域我们没有。我们遥遥领先。



Ray Comeau, Interest in geopolitics
Thanks for request
Europe is not a country it is a geographical area composed of many small countries with different cultures. In some ways it looks more like India than the US or China.
There are European companies but are any companies European ? Airbus is the only one that comes close as it is owned in part by three European countries.
My observation of Europe is that it still behaves with a parochial and conservative mindset, which in turn delivers European results and sometimes world results but in traditional European industries - Cars, watches, high fashion.
Below is an example of someone’s opinion of what innovation is
European countries are innovative but it is either outside tech like pharmaceuticals etc or it exists on a small scale and therefore is dwarfed by the big boys.

Ray Comeau, 对地缘政治感兴趣
欧洲不是一个国家,而是一个地理区域,由许多有着不同文化的小国组成。在某些方面,欧洲看起来更像印度,而不是美国或中国。

有欧洲公司,但所有公司都是欧洲的吗?空客是唯一一家与之接近的公司,因为它的部分所有权由三个欧洲国家所有。我对欧洲的观察是,它仍然表现出一种狭隘和保守的心态,这反过来导致了欧洲的结果,有时是世界的结果,当然在传统的欧洲产业——汽车、手表、高级时装等方面依然世界领先。

欧洲国家是创新的,但它要么是像制药等行业以外的技术,要么就是规模很小,因此在大公司面前相形见绌。



Reno Hyde
Europe needs more companies like airbus to compete with us and China.

欧洲需要更多像空客这样的公司来与美国和中国竞争。



Robert Leo
I don’t think this is entirely true, but true to a certain extent. Let’s take some examples:
. Semiconductors - no Chinese in sight, intel has been dominating for a very long time, micron trying to survive for a very long time, and Korean companies Samsung and Hynix have been in the top spots for close to two decades. Japanese to my surprise has only Toshiba left, and Europeans (SGS Thompson, Philips) have left the top spots for a very long time.
. System integrators - SAP anyone? Where’s the Chinese? There are IBM, GE etc all pretty long time top players.
. Network equipment - Nokia, Alcatel are both top European companies for a very long time, Cisco has been dominating the top spot for a very long time, but it is being threatened by Huawei, a rapidly growing Chinese company. Also ZTE a much lesser known Chinese company. Pretty much most names in the top 20 have been there for the last 20 years.
The Chinese presence is mainly felt in consumer markets that have gone through sharp change of fortune in the last 20 years:
. Smart phone, Japan was the early front runner, then Motorola, then Nokia, then Apple pretty much redefined the smart phone, and along came Samsung. Now the Chinese are challenging the top spots.
. Internet companies, almost dominated entirely by the Americans, it has been like that all along. Chinese compete in their own ways, by blocking American companies or putting them to disadvantage in the Chinese market.

我不认为提问的说法是完全正确的。让我们举几个例子:

半导体——看不到中国,英特尔已经统治了很长一段时间,美光也试图生存了很长一段时间,韩国公司三星和海力士已经占据了近20年的榜首位置。令我惊讶的是,日本只剩下东芝,而欧洲公司(汤普森和飞利浦)很长一段时间以来一直占据榜首。

系统集成商——SAP有人知道吗?中国在哪里?在欧洲,有IBM,通用电气等,都是很长时间里的顶级公司。

网络设备——诺基亚和阿尔卡特都是欧洲的顶级公司,已经有很长一段时间了,思科已经统治榜首很长一段时间了,但它正受到华为的威胁,这是一家快速增长的中国公司,此外还有中兴通讯,一家名气小得多的中国公司。几乎前20名中的大多数名字都是在过去的20年里出现的。

中国人的存在主要体现在消费市场,在过去20年里,这些市场经历了巨大的财富变化:
智能手机,日本是最早的领跑者,然后是摩托罗拉,然后是诺基亚,然后是苹果重新定义了智能手机,然后是三星。现在,中国人正在挑战榜首位置。

互联网公司几乎完全由美国人控制,一直如此。中国人以自己的方式竞争,通过阻止美国公司或使他们在中国市场处于劣势。



Marcus Depaul, M.A. Medical Biotechnology
Are they?
The Consumer Product Tech Industry is dominated by US, China, S. Korea, Japan and Taiwan. As consumer products are what most people see and touch every day, this skews the perception they have about the tech industry.
If we look at the tech industry more comprehensively the picture changes. If also industrial technology, chip making and advanced networking is considered we have a really different picture, where the US and Europe still dominate (with few exceptions).
Chip Making. There are several companies which design their own chips, yet there are only a handful of companies which are able to produce the machinery which produces such cipsets. The indiscussed market leader (by far) is Dutch: ASML. Look at this:
That, ladies and gentelmen is one of the most high tech machines ever produced. Neither the US nor China or Japan are able to copy this technology (thus far).
Integrated systems electronics. When it comes to electronics which work “under the hood” in cars, industry, or automation three companies dominate the market: Siemens, Bosch and GE.
Aerospace electronics. Here again, firmly in the hands of US and Europe.
Consumer products indeed give a different impression, yet where technology is really needed to be reliable China is far from dominating the market.

Marcus Depaul, 医学生物技术硕士
“为什么美国和中国似乎主导着科技行业,而欧洲没有?”
是这么回事吗?

消费产品科技行业由美国、中国、韩国、日本和台湾主导。由于大多数人每天看到和接触的都是消费品,这扭曲了他们对科技行业的看法。

如果我们更全面地看待科技行业,情况就会发生变化。如果将工业技术、芯片制造和先进网络也考虑在内,我们将看到一幅截然不同的图景:美国和欧洲仍占据主导地位(几乎没有例外)。

芯片制造。有几家公司设计了自己的芯片,但只有少数几家公司能够生产用于制造芯片的机器。目前讨论最多的市场领导者是荷兰的ASML。看看这个:

女士们先生们,这是有史以来科技含量最高的机器之一。迄今为止,美国、中国和日本都无法复制这项技术。

电子集成系统。当涉及到汽车、工业或自动化领域的、“引擎盖下”工作的电子产品时,有三家公司主导了市场:西门子、博世和通用电气。

网络基础设施。中国公司华为在这方面是个例外。
航空航天电子产品。又一次,牢牢地掌握在美国和欧洲手中。
消费品的确给人一种不同的印象,但在真正需要可靠技术的领域,中国远未主宰市场。



Reno Hyde
I disagree with putting Japan in the same gamut as those other countries I think Japan is the only Asian country that can be on par with the US and Europe or even exceed it. Japan produces a lot of its own machines too.
Canon of Japan is the only company in the world that can produce machines used to make oled panels. It produces almost all of them. Canon also has similar machines to the Dutch asml that makes machines to make chips.
A lot of the machines and robots used to manufacture stuff is also made in Japan.

我不同意把日本和其他国家放在同样的水平下,我认为日本是唯一一个可以与美国和欧洲平起平坐甚至超越美国的亚洲国家。日本也生产很多自己的机器。

日本佳能是世界上唯一一家能够生产OLED面板机器的公司,几乎所有都是它生产的。佳能也有类似荷兰ASML制造芯片的机器。

很多用来制造产品的机器和机器人也是日本制造的。



Marcus Depaul
Is it? South Korea is the undisputed leader in screen technology while Taiwan in GPU, server chip-sets and now even AI specific chip-sets. Both are currently innovating as fast as Japan

是吗?
韩国在屏幕技术上是无可争议的领导者,而台湾则在GPU、服务器芯片组,现在甚至是人工智能特定芯片组方面领先。这两家目前的创新速度都和日本一样快



Reno Hyde
korea is not the undisputed leader they simply have consumer market share with the masses.
I thought your entire post was about the technology that goes behind the stuff that consumers use but don’t see or know about?
if we were to go with that nearly all of the machine Samsung uses to make their oled smartphones (LG included) comes from japan. The machines used to make them are japanese. Basically it has complete monopoly over this.
When it comes to professional reference minotor displays Sony is the undisputed leader used in studios and hollywood movies. I’d argue Sony flagship TV’s are better than samsung. Though both are good.
When it comes to Chip set manufacturing yes that is one thing Japan has fallen behind. But like you said yourself ASML makes the machines that taiwan uses to make the chipsets. And canon is another competitor to this that also makes machines for them.
not to mention the silicon wafer chips which japanese also have the highest market share in.

韩国并不是无可争议的领导者,它只是占有与大众有密切关系的消费市场份额。你这篇回复不是关于隐藏在消费者背后的那些没有被看到、被知晓的那些技术么?

三星用于生产oled智能手机(包括LG)的几乎所有机器都来自日本。用来制造它们的机器是日本的。基本上它完全垄断了这个市场。

当谈到专业级显示屏,索尼毫无疑问是领导者,它常被用于工作室和好莱坞电影中。我认为索尼的旗舰电视比三星的要好。尽管两者都很好。

至于芯片组的制造,是的,这是日本落后的一点。但就像你自己说的,ASML生产了台湾用来生产芯片组的机器,但佳能是其竞争对手,也为台湾制造机器。



Marcus Depaul
What you write was correct a few years ago. Now Sony OLED TVs use LG monitors while the new reference in technology is Samsung′s QLED system (which is collapsing OLED and mico LED prices.

你的说法数年前是对的。

但现在索尼的OLED电视使用了LG显示器,而新的技术参考的是三星的QLED技术(该技术正在冲击OLED和mico LED的价格)。



Zijian He, Chinese
The EU market is not unified like the US and China which have huge markets with the same language. Those are enough for Chinese equivalents of US internet giants to rival their counterparts. That’s without even needing the Chinese companies to penetrate foreign markets. The EU has been blocking mergers that would allow European companies to compete with the giants.
European companies that do come up with certain tech are just purchased by existing big players.
China is doing relatively well in hardware. Shenzhen is the silicon valley of hardware with a really dynamic environment. They can get things done in hours and days. In Europe it would take a month.

欧盟市场不像美国和中国那样统一,后两国都拥有语言统一的巨大市场。这些足以让中国的互联网巨头与美国的互联网巨头竞争。这甚至不需要中国公司进入外国市场。欧盟一直在阻止欧洲公司的合并并与域外巨头竞争。

那些提供某些技术的欧洲公司只能被现有的大公司收购。中国在硬件方面做得相对不错。深圳是硬件的硅谷,拥有真正动态的环境。他们可以在数小时或数天内完成所需工作。在欧洲则需要一个月的时间。


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